Naji Gehchan: Hello, leaders of the world. Welcome to “Spread Love in Organizations”, a podcast for purpose-driven healthcare leaders, striving to make life better around the world by leading their teams with genuine care, servant leadership, and love.
I’m Naji, your host, joined today by Anthony Yanni Senior Vice President and Global Head of Patient Centricity at Astellas Pharma. Anthony practiced Patient Centricity as a doctor and drug developer before the term even existed – by listening to patients and applying what he learned to offer better care. Now a veteran of senior leadership roles in hospitals and industry, Anthony is among the world’s leading advocates of Patient Centricity as a proven model for healthcare delivery and medicines development. In articles, interviews, talks, and now a book, he reveals Patient Centricity as an overdue disruption that will improve and speed up the treatments many people are waiting for.
Anthony Yanni: Oh, thank you, Naji. It’s great to be here.
Naji Gehchan: I’d love first to hear more about your personal story before going to patient centricity and really why you became a physician and what brought you to the industry and now being an executive and thought leader.
Anthony Yanni: Yeah, so, you know, my journey began a long, long time ago, um, when I decided I wanted to go into healthcare and become a physician. And, um, when I went to medical school, my focus was really on how do I spend as much time with patients? I was very, much energized by the interaction physicians had with patients in the exam room with their family members.
And so, when I graduated medical school, I did a residency in internal medicine, and I spent over 12 years working directly with patients in the exam room at the bedside intensive care unit, all the aspects of patient care that most of us are familiar with from, uh, internal medicine specialists. It was just an amazing experience.
I loved every minute of spending time in the exam room and talking to patients and their families. From that role, I also had an interest in business, and I, uh, subsequently became chief of internal medicine and then chief medical officer of a hospital system, which really gave me a perspective on the delivery of care.
In a broader sense, uh, how do systems deliver care? How do you manage systems? How do you deal with regulations and governments and payers? Um, and so I was really fortunate to see health care from the exam room, from the administration of hospital systems and the delivery of care. And then from there I went on into pharma, first working in regular clinical development role, writing protocols and developing medicines, and then finally into what is now patient centricity, uh, which, um, again, I’ve been in this space for, uh, well over 12 or 13 years.
As well, we could talk more about that.
Naji Gehchan: Well, thanks for sharing, uh, uh, Anthony, uh, you transitioned from being a clinician to the industry. And so you, you said the very early days of medicine, you were looking how to spend most of the time with, uh, with patients. So I I’d love if you go back in time, what would be your biggest advice you would give to yourself?
As you did this transition.
Anthony Yanni: Yeah, it’s it’s actually I talk about this in the book as well. And this idea of always be open to opportunities. I think I’ve tried to follow that path in my career. You know, you always want to have a plan. You always want to understand where it is. You want to end up, but always be open to change into opportunities that might Okay.
Not be something that was on your mind prior, but gives you an opportunity to do something that’s exciting and, and, um, and, uh, and gives you energy. And so that’s sort of how I approached the transition from clinical practice into hospital administration from hospital administration into industry. Each time I saw an opportunity to have an impact on patients, and that’s what really my, was my baseline focus.
Naji Gehchan: I love it. Opportunity to have an impact on patients. So let’s talk about patients and patient centricity. So it’s your focus, your passion, your obviously publishing, uh, around it for several, uh, years. And now a book, uh, can tell us, well, the name of the book is a Bandana and a Blue Hat. So let’s start a Blue Bird Band.
And a Bluebird. Yeah, A Bandana and a Bluebird. Um, so let’s start first by defining what you mean by patient
Anthony Yanni: centricity. So patient centricity has been a term that’s been sort of used over the last maybe five or seven years, and I think it’s been used in different ways. So I define patient centricity in two ways.
One is an operational definition. It’s the, uh, active integration of patient insights into all decisions leading to patient solutions. So the patient takes part in all of the activities when we’re developing new medicines, new solutions for them. And their inputs help us to make different decisions than we would have if we had not engaged and learned from them.
The second definition is a cultural one. It’s the conscious awareness of the patient in every role, every day, and in every activity inside of a company. Both of those definitions are critical if we are truly going to have a patient centric process that changes the way we develop solutions and changes the way we work together with patients and patient groups.
Naji Gehchan: So can we go on each of one and how as leaders we can influence each of one? So the first one, as you’re saying is, uh, if I did to make it in a simple way, correct me if I’m wrong, I’m thinking One is external. So how to make sure that the insights and the voices are of patients are influencing all the different steps you said from drug development to commercialization.
And then the other one is the internal work to make sure that we are making decisions based on what’s best for patients. So if we, can you give us some examples, use cases and how as leaders we can ensure both are going forward hand in
Anthony Yanni: hand? So I would define it just slightly differently. I think you’re right that it has to be an internal and external component, but I define it in two categories of work.
One is operational work, meaning how do you, how do you make actionable the patient insight? So for instance, many companies might go out and ask patients their opinions about certain diseases and certain treatments. But if you don’t connect that to action. We haven’t changed the way the next generation of solutions are being developed.
We’ve done part of the work, but not finished the work. Patient centricity is more than asking patients for their advice or their input. Patient centricity is asking for it and then utilizing it. So that we change the way we make decisions. So that’s the first piece. Operationally, how are we utilizing patient insights to change the way we develop medicines?
The second piece is the foundational piece. It’s the culture of the organization. The culture piece is what makes the act, the operational piece sustainable. So if you have, we have five teams that were four teams that work on the operational component inside of Estella’s and one team that focuses on the culture.
But if we didn’t have a cultural piece of the entire organization wasn’t saying every day that when I go to work, it’s for the patient. My job is to deliver solutions. you know, with patients for patients, the operational piece wouldn’t be sustainable. So what we do is we create a culture where everyone understands the focus of their work, the purpose of the day.
And that also helps with organizational recruitment and retention satisfaction at work. So there’s a whole benefit to the cultural piece. But if you can keep the cultural piece positive, the operational piece that you’ve created will be sustainable. Both of those are critical to having a patient centricity function that’s, that is impactful to patients.
Naji Gehchan: This, this is really great and I deeply believe in this, like, driven by purpose, obviously, for, for us to deliver for the patients we serve. Uh, are there any tips, example, as we go through it? Because both of us know when we’re leading large cross functional teams, and I’m assuming, but correct me if I’m wrong, the culture you’re talking about is really a cross functional culture.
the organization cross functionally, not only one, not only development, not only marketing, MetaFair, like I, are you thinking about it cross functionally? And if it’s the case, do you have any good examples where several times teams are so taken in the daily tasks and things we need to deliver that Patients become remote somehow, unfortunately.
So how can you remind people? How do you do it in a tactical way for your people across the organization to keep this always in mind? Yeah, so
Anthony Yanni: it’s, it’s absolutely true. It’s absolutely critical that it involves every geography, every role, every day. That’s the way a culture is built and sustained. So we do engage everyone from researchers to development people, commercial folks.
As well as finance and HR team members, everyone should understand that their role is critical to the work that we’re doing. The way, the way we did this is, you know, the how is creating cultural programs that are, that transition from passive to active. So many companies have Great. Um, you know, uh, pictures on their walls to talk about the culture they wish they had.
That narrative piece doesn’t last very long. It just becomes wall art after a while. If you don’t connect it to active ways, the team members can participate. and remind themselves and continue to learn that they are part of a culture that’s unique and we’re privileged to be part of. So, we have active programs inside of the company that everyone, everywhere can participate in, including a patient centricity university, which is a curriculum based learning opportunity for certification centricity, where you can participate in each level, grow, and ultimately in the final Um, in the final certification level, you can come back and teach the organization what you’ve done.
That was unique in delivering a patient centric approach to solve a problem. And then you become part of the teaching faculty of this university. So going from a passive to active culture is the key in any industry to having a sustainable, positive culture and impact.
Naji Gehchan: Certainly living it as you’re saying, living it with actions.
Passive to active, uh, when you’re, do you have any good, strong example? I’m sure you do on where this culture actually enabled what you said operationally can be done for patients. If there’s one you’re really proud about that you literally changed how we think about patients and one of our processes in the
Anthony Yanni: pharma industry.
Yeah, that’s a great question. And I I’m so proud of so many things. I can tell you that we have teams, the four teams that are active in the operational. part of patient centricity. We have a team that specializes working with research teams. We have a team that specializes in understanding the patient in the real world setting.
So they’re working with development and medical teams and commercial teams. We have a team that specializes in behavior, um, understanding the patient, um, in their interaction with the healthcare system, the healthcare providers, their caregiver. And we have a team that works with developing relationships with patients.
When we started, Each of these teams was meant to parallel the entire discovery to delivery system that exists in pharma. So, for instance, that team that works with the researchers, we have transitioned from starting to work with them to them requiring part, requiring their teams to, to engage our teams before they make decisions on the molecules.
They actually ask about. and regularly want to understand the exam room approach for the treatment of the disease they’re thinking about in the research lab. The commercial teams, when they’re talking about patients are talking about products. We don’t as a rule, patient centricity is brand agnostic. We don’t work with any brands.
We’re not salespeople. We bring the patient into the system so that all the teams can work more efficiently. But you know, I’ve been in rooms with commercial teams where they talk about Not how many sales they’re going to have in a region, but how many patients can be treated. How many patients are, you know, are, are waiting for this particular, um, solution.
I mean, that’s remarkable when you start to hear folks inside of an organization talk about patients first. Um, regardless of the role that they’re playing in. Many of these roles are highly technical, as you know, but to bring it back to the patient, it’s remarkable. And just as an aside, just as a quantitative measure, we, um, do pulse surveys periodically.
And the last pulse survey has been a while back now, um, just to level set the pulse survey nationally, internationally, globally, and in the U. S. The positivity rate of employees is In various industries, across industries is about 18 or 19%, meaning are you do you feel positive about the role you’re in? 18, 19%.
That was a Gallup poll in September of 2023. We did a pulse survey and 80 percent of the team members believe they were contributing to a patient solution. 80%. That’s a remarkable result. Of not just what we’re doing, but the belief, the true belief that they know they’re contributing in the work that they do.
And it’s important
Naji Gehchan: that it is remarkable. And I certainly relate to that and believe in this. Right. And as you’re saying, we, uh, we are all in this industry for for a noble purpose and being reminded day by day why we wake up and each one of us has this part. to at the end get it to patients. So I love how you’re framing it and where you’re going.
And ultimately, yeah, all that we do is. to make life better for, for those patients who need our treatment. So it’s, it’s really great work that you’re doing with, uh, with your teams. Thanks for sharing this. Any tech, uh, advances when you think about patient centricity that you’re, if you look at the future, the next decade, there’s a lot of discussions about not only, technology in life sciences, but also computational science, et cetera.
Is there any tech that you’re really excited about and you think that will transform and improve patient centricity?
Anthony Yanni: I think There are two specific areas that probably need to be addressed regularly. First is, I think the technology of virtual reality, augmented reality, bring opportunities for us to show internally or to share internally the patient experience more specifically.
We’ve done that with VR, uh, and patients who have impaired sight. I think that changes the game as far as how we understand the work that we’re doing. The people that are waiting for solutions and the importance of us doing it in the most efficient way possible. Um, and it changes the, the, the, the internal teams understanding of, of really, even if you believe wholly what we’re doing, it changes the depth of the understanding just to have that small little experience.
that patients might have. As small as it is, it helps for us to understand it. The second thing that always has to be addressed these days is, is um, artificial intelligence, AI. I think there’s this excitement about the opportunity and I do think it, it does present an exciting future for understanding the patient experience, but I am very cautious when it comes to that.
I think we have to be very careful. As it is deployed to understand what are the impacts of larger data sets. Large, large amounts of data does not necessarily mean better information. And sometimes larger data sets can actually confuse the issue and confirm things that you want, wish were true, and maybe not necessarily give us the truth of a larger population.
I think we need to accept the fact that this is something that’s going to happen. We need to understand. before we try to use these larger data sets in this artificial intelligence as to what is specifically the question we’re asking. How are we mining this information? How are we going to review this information to apply it appropriately?
And how do we most, most importantly protect patient privacy? at all costs because that’s the, that’s what they deserve with this most precious pieces of information. Um, the, the other thing with, um, AI is that it will never take the place of live interactions with patients. You need to be in the room or these days maybe on Zoom to talk to people to understand what it is.
that is important to them. As the conversation progresses, it can’t just be a static question that’s answered on a form in or in a data in a data lake that is that is captured. I want to see that patient. I want to understand their life. I want to understand their context. And I talk a lot about this In the book about context being incredibly important behavior being incredibly important.
We need to understand that each patient is different and while large amounts of data are going to be necessary because we can’t talk to a million patients talking to patients does add unique and valuable information beyond simply tables of information.
Naji Gehchan: So I want to move us now to a section where I’ll give you a word. It’s And I would love your first reaction to it. The first one is leadership.
Anthony Yanni: Leadership is a balance. Can I give more than a single word answer or can I, okay, good. I didn’t know if I was supposed to just give one word here. I think leadership is a re, a required balance between, uh, innovation and risk for us to progress in the future in a positive way for patients.
What about purpose? The reason for the day each of us in every industry need to have a purpose as leaders. We need to ensure we support that purpose too often in industries, not just health care, not just pharma. We expect the purpose, but don’t support it. And in fact, we’re letting down the actual team members who come on board expecting that their purpose.
will be able to be executed and fulfilled. So as leaders to the first part of the question, we need to support the purpose with a culture that is true to what we claim it to be.
Naji Gehchan: And I want to give a shout out to, uh, Jill Donahue, uh, who also shared this and have, uh, she has a book that launched.
previously on the power of purpose. Um, so I completely agree.
Anthony Yanni: Jill’s a terrific example of somebody who understands probably more than anyone, the power of purpose, uh, which is her book and the fact that purpose drives, um, efficiency, it drives satisfaction and it drives outcomes.
Naji Gehchan: The third one is a bandana and a blue bird.
Bandana and a
Anthony Yanni: bluebird is our symbols for patients, the patients that have taught me my lessons in developing the patient centricity function. They represent, they represent the very solemn and critical contribution patients make every day to our learning, to our evolution. And for me, It’s the commitment from, from me to honor their memories and their, their, um, willingness to share these private, private stories and, um, experiences with their health care providers and those in their network to hopefully change the way we deliver care for the better.
Naji Gehchan: Well, thank you for sharing this and your book will be. Uh, available very soon and we will, uh, we will share it on the podcast for, for several of us to learn more about the stories of those symbols and how we can improve patient centricity. The last word is spread love and organizations.
Anthony Yanni: That that’s that’s an easy one for me. I mean, everything we do should be with love as the common thread, right? We we are all going to be patients. We are all going to need the health care system We are all working every day for those people who are waiting for solutions and whether you’re in health care or any other industry Is there a better way to work than with love, than with that commitment to believe in what you’re doing, the greater good, and with the hope that at the end of every single day, we can go home and know that we did our very best.
And that the people who are waiting can rest assured they’re on our minds, they’re in our hearts, and that we’re doing what we can.
Naji Gehchan: Any final word of wisdom, Anthony, for healthcare leaders around the world?
Anthony Yanni: Yeah, I think, uh, my, my final word is one is a challenge. As I, as I point out in the book that this is the time. We can make a difference. We have a purpose. We are at a point now where we can disrupt the way things are and how we develop medicines and start to develop them with patients, for patients, with their benefit and their needs in mind.
We can change the way we deliver healthcare and transition away from treating patients and start to care again for individuals. And together, linking these systems, we can truly change the way. Medicine is developed and healthcare is delivered. Now is the time. We can do it. Let’s, let’s do it together.
Naji Gehchan: Now it’s the time.
Let’s do it together. I love this. Thank you so much, Anthony, for joining me today. It’s been a real pleasure to talk to you again and hear more about what all the work you’ve been doing. Thank you again.
Anthony Yanni: Thank you, Nigel.
Naji Gehchan: Thank you all for listening to Spread Love in Organizations podcast. Subscribe and connect with us on spreadloveio.
com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Most importantly, spread love in your organizations and spread the word around you to inspire others and amplify this movement our world so desperately needs.
Naji Gehchan: Thank you all for listening to SpreadLove in Organizations podcast. Drop us a review on your preferred podcast platform
Follow us on LinkedIn and connect with us on spreadloveio.com. We’re eager to hear your thoughts and feedback. Most importantly, spread love in your organizations and spread the word around you to inspire others and amplify this movement, our world so desperately needs