Naji Gehchan: Welcome to SpreadLove in Organizations, the healthcare leadership podcast where we explore leadership with purpose.
I am Naji your host, joined today by a dear friend Dr. Basil Upton. Basil is a purpose driven transformational and servant leader dedicated to helping others reach their potential. He is entering his 24th year with Eli Lilly and Company where he is an executive business director. His teams have consistently exceeded performance expectations for numerous years. Basil’s work accomplishments include business director of the year, Elite coach, Platinum Performer, and recipient of several Coaching Awards. In the summer of 2024, Basil graduated from Marymount University with a doctoral degree in Educational Leadership and Organizational Innovation. He studied how a supervisor’s leadership style affects the engagement of pharmaceutical sales professionals during periods of varied sales performance.
Basil Upton: This is an honor, Dr. Gehchan. I’ve waited a long time for this. This has been a, I guess the, the, the journey of spread love in organizations is, is finally coming all the way full circle.
This is great. Oh
Naji Gehchan: man.
Basil Upton: Thanks for this
Naji Gehchan: opportunity. Certainly. Full circle, sir. Um, I’m excited for you to be here and, uh. For those who, uh, don’t know, you were behind the idea of taking spread love all the concept that I had into like something bigger and it became a podcast. So I, I owe you that. I’m really excited to have you here.
Basil Upton: I I, I’ll never forget that, uh, that day, uh, you know, I think it was the, uh, middle to end stages of, uh, the pandemic. And like many people during the pandemic, I listened to a, a, a zillion podcasts and was listening to one on innovation and, and following, um, following the talents that you have and, and taking the special gifts that you have and, and doing something with it.
And I got thinking, I’m like. Should have listened to this. I just, I just, I think I had texted you and said, Hey, let’s catch up. And I’m sure you came on and thought, you know, we were gonna talk about something work related and, and we just started brainstorming and, and then this came about. And then to see what you’ve done with it.
I’m pretty proud of you.
Naji Gehchan: Thanks. Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s been, it’s been an incredible, uh, journey now, four years, who would’ve said, yeah, it’s been 162 episodes and four years. It’s, it’s crazy.
Basil Upton: Yeah.
Naji Gehchan: But today is about you, but I’d love first to start with a question you, I’m sure you enjoy and like about you, your personal story. What drove you to healthcare, to pharma and, and now like after several years of experience, you, you’ve done a doctorate in leadership and organizational innovation.
Tell me, tell me a little bit more about you.
Basil Upton: Sure. Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll hit on my, uh, personal story and professional story. Um, but first, uh, I, I have to do a disclaimer at the request of my employer, uh, you know, for fair balance here. So anything that I’m talking about, you know, the contents and views, uh, expressed here are my own.
And do you not represent the views of my employer, Eli Lilly Company. So now we have the legal part out of the way, uh, and, and can jump into this. Um, you know, if I’m looking at, at, at the story, um, an hour to, you know, just kind of sum it up in one sentence, I’d say, you know, I’m just a kid from Maine and I, I’d love to, you know, go and trademark that.
But there’s a, a, a company in Maine that’s actually already done that. It’s, uh, catalyst for change. And first off, and I guess another disclaimer, I’m not involved with this company. I have no financial interest in this company, but it’s, it’s a cool group in, in Maine, and they make, uh, you know, uh, shirts and hats and, and things with, uh, sayings like just a kid from Maine.
And I’m like, that is, that is me. And I, and I think it’s neat how that group. Uh, ties into your podcast as servant leadership because this group, uh, donates, um. Money from every sale to the Maine Children’s Cancer Program and, uh, a suicide prevention program in Maine. So it’s, it’s really cool, uh, how that comes together.
So, yeah, long story short, just a kid from Maine, um, I, I was raised, uh, you know, by my maternal grandparents in down East Main, in fact. My wife and I live in the house that, uh, I grew up in for and for the earliest parts of, of my wife. Um, my, my name, my first name, uh, comes from my grandfather. My maternal grandfather I was mentioning.
He was, uh, he was actually a World War II hero. Um, he served in the European theater in World War ii. And was awarded two bronze stars, uh, for bravery. Uh, he and my grandmother really instilled the values that I have, especially for, for hard work. Um, no excuses, no complaining, uh, and it, and it shaped me to become the person that, uh, that I am.
I, I wish everybody could have a grandmother, like, like I had, who was. It was truly so caring and, and really exemplified to me what unconditional love is. So very blessed, um, that way to have had those two in my life. And as we go through the, the personal story, the professional story, you, you’ll, you’ll hear more about my grandmother, uh, coming into this.
Um, my wife and I have been married for three, four years. Uh, we’ve known each other, uh, all our lives and, and. It’s funny, we talked about the grandparents part, the grandparents that I mentioned, and her grandparents actually built a hunting camp together, uh, back in the sixties. So when I say my wife and I have known each other all our lives, we really have all our lives and grew up about a mile away from, from each other.
Uh, we’re blessed with two wonderful, uh, adult children. Uh. Just, uh, gifted individuals, uh, doing great, uh, with their lives and have two amazing, wonderful, uh, grandchildren, um, as, as well, you know, and in my free time when seriously I’m not geeking out over, uh, trying to uncover the latest trends and, and leadership and, and how I could, you know, build a better mouse trap and being a leader.
Um, I love being outdoors. Love, uh, fishing. Um, any type of freshwater fishing, uh, I’ll be involved in. And, and we still live here, like I said, in in Maine, which is one of the best parts in the world to live if, uh, if you like to do those things. Yeah, yeah,
Naji Gehchan: it certainly is. And so what, what, what drove you, what drove you to pharma?
Like how did you end up in pharma and then. You know, we will certainly delve more into the leadership aspect of it. Mm-hmm. Why, why the healthcare industry?
Basil Upton: Yeah. I, uh, I started off, um, in, in, when I was in college, uh, undergraduate degree in, in psychology. So I wanted to help people, I wanted to be involved in, in that.
Um, you know, as I mentioned, my, my grandmother was a, a driving force in my education. My uncle and my cousin, uh, were already, uh, medical doctors. And so her assumption to me was, guess what? You’re, you’re gonna be a doctor too. And when it came to, uh, blood, for example, or just, you know, what it, what it’s like, and then being involved with, with being a medical doctor, that wasn’t what was best for me.
So I said, well, Graham, I, I’ll be a psychologist instead. Uh, you know, I’ll still be able to be in healthcare and, and help people. And she’s like, okay, yep, that’s, that’s good. So, went on and, uh, got a degree master’s degree in, in counseling and, um, was a, a psychotherapist for, uh, a number of years. Um, and you know, after I finished my, my master’s degree, I decided, well, you know, I’m going to take a little break.
Um, so I told my grandmother, you know, Hey, I’m, I’m gonna pause, you know, this pursuit of becoming a doctor. And she was, she was, let’s just say, upset, um, with me, still loving, that’s what unconditional love is, but upset and, uh, you know, said, okay, but you, you’ve gotta promise me. You, you need to become a doctor one day.
And I said, yes, I promise. And so I, I worked, you know, thinking I was gonna become a, a clinical psychologist and found that, um, it just, I, I wasn’t, it wasn’t where my passion was. I, um, I don’t know. I, I just eventually, uh, came to understand that there were other things that I was more interested in, in healthcare, um, from a, a more of a business standpoint.
And so I was really struggling with my career, figuring out what, what am I going to do? And so my wife said, well, you know, based on, uh, you know, what you do as, um, you know, as a therapist and, and being a halfway decent active listener. You know, why aren’t you go into pharma? Why don’t you go into, uh, uh, pharmaceutical sales?
I’m like, I dunno if that’s for me. And she’s like, yeah, I think you could, you should, you should do that. Give it a try. So I begrudgingly tried, um, decided to come to Lily. Um, and fortunate enough that they took a chance on me, you know, like I said, you know, nearly 24 years ago. And, um. Was able to go in and, and start selling in primary care sales for neuroscience.
So having worked in, in mental health, um, it was a, a good transition in working in, in Lily’s neuroscience portfolio. So at that time, you know, I was able to, to really combine it and put that into, uh, into work. And that’s, that’s the story of really how did I, I get to, uh, pharmaceuticals and, and healthcare at Lilly.
Naji Gehchan: Well, thanks, thanks for sharing, uh, this part of your life. Um, and truly, you know, you wanted to be a doctor. You promised that and you are now. So, and that’s, that’s part of also a piece of you that always inspired me. Uh, I remember when we first started discussing about you, thinking about it, and then you went, you did it, uh, successfully.
So I’m intrigued because it’s leadership and you said like you geek on leadership and it’s a good trends. Um, and you’ve been in different part of the organization, led teams throughout different, uh, places. Is there kind of like a leadership experience or trade or something specific throughout that intrigued you to a level where you’re like, okay, I’m gonna study it.
I’ve gotta do a doctorate of leadership and organizational innovation. Like what, what really triggered that inside you?
Basil Upton: Uh, it’s a, it’s an innate curiosity. Always, always wondering, you know, what could, how could we tweak something? How could we change something to be able to bring out the best in people?
Um, and then how do we, how do we replicate it? And then the more you’re replicating it, how do we take it? And then improve it even more. And so for, for me, the, the leadership aspect of it was being able to dig deeper and, and better understand the, the theories that are out there, the, um, the history, be behind the theories, how they were developed, and then the innovation part, you know, the balance between risk and reward.
Deciding what are you going to, to take a chance on changing? What are the, what would be the impact of the changes that, that you make? Who’s going to benefit? Who will benefit, uh, the most from it, the stakeholder analysis that that goes into it? Um, it was very, there were a lot similarities in that to the, uh, to being a Lean Six Sigma black belt.
Uh, at Lilly. So you’re able to dig into the analysis of what are the, the soft skills that you’re changing. And I know one of your, your, your former guests talks about, um, how there aren’t really soft skills and, and, uh, renamed those and it was an amazing podcast. Uh, but that’s, that kind of sums it up and, and ties it together there.
Yeah.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah. And you know, one of the things, as you were, you were saying about, you know, being Six Sigma soft skills, et cetera. And, um, yeah, we, we talked in one of the episodes about calling them smart skills instead of
mm-hmm.
Naji Gehchan: Of self. Mm-hmm. Um, but, you know, you’re, you’ve, you’re a servant leader. I know it, it’s not just you saying it.
Uh, and really part of what you’ve done. And I would love to go more into, uh, your research actually that you worked through, uh, the past years. Uh, and dissertation. Uh, there, there’s always this piece where. If you are more analytical data driven, six Sigma type of leader than the softest software we don’t care about.
But we, we discussed about this quite a bit where you and I do not believe in that like we believe mm-hmm. In the end. So yeah, tell me a little bit more about your thinking about that and also part of your research, I’m sure touches this too.
Basil Upton: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so the research I did was. You know, it was entitled, you know, leading for Sustained Success, um, how, uh, a supervisor’s leadership style affects employee engagement in pharmaceutical sales professionals.
And I, and I wanted to look specifically at periods of varied sales performance. So if you look at any type of, of industry, regardless if it’s sales or not, they’re ups and downs and are leaders consistent. The, do their employees want them to be consistent? What are they looking for? So it started as a, as a very big question, and I set up the, the study was, was qualitative.
Um, and, you know, it was a, a phenomenological approach. So, you know, you always want to do research that hopefully someone will come after you and say, Hey, this looks neat. Let’s take it and try to replicate it. Or let’s do it in a different style such as quantitative. So hopefully, you know, someone will hear this and, and do that.
But it’s, it’s, it’s wondering, you know. Can the concept of leadership really start to be seen as, as the science aspect versus the art aspect of it. And as you started digging in, there were, um, three research questions that kind of drove, uh, the study. And the first one was, you know, what type of leadership styles or behaviors are most common?
During each period of varied sales performance, uh, according to, or, or, you know, perceived by pharmaceutical sales professionals. And, and the first thing that really was an aha was when I say, Hey, what’s your leadership style? If you say that to somebody, a lot of times you’re gonna hear about what are the behaviors they have and demonstrate as a leader.
But you don’t always hear, Hey, I’m a servant leader. I’m a transformational leader. Actually, I’m a transactional leader. And so in digging through this, there, there was a a lot of misunderstanding. And during the, the, the interviews I did with the subjects, I found that there was only one whose leader had told them specifically, Hey, I am a transformational leader.
All the others like. Based on, I don’t know what type of leadership style my leader has. They could tell me the behaviors, but they couldn’t tell me a specific style. Now, is that a big deal? Is it, is it monumental? Probably not, but, but to me, I think there needs to be a central foundation that you adopt as a leader.
That is your North star. And it doesn’t mean that you can’t adapt the behaviors you have as a leader to the individual, each individual that works with you. I mean, as a servant leader, you get to know who your, who your people are, what motivates them, what do they love, and you don’t change to, to different styles based on.
You, you don’t have to change your foundation based on that. So that was, um, the first research question and one of the interesting things that, that kind of popped up as, as we were going through it and then looking at how to changes in a, in the supervisor’s leadership style or behaviors, uh, affect pharmaceutical sales professionals engagement.
When the performance varies. The third research question was, um, which leadership style or behaviors provide positive engagement when sales performance does and and doesn’t meet sales quota? Then I actually had a, an unexpected result. So sometimes when, when you’re doing research, um, things just pop out that you, that you didn’t expect.
And I did have a, a interview question, not a research question, but an interview question where I said, Hey, are there any factors beyond your supervisor’s leadership style or behaviors that affect your engagement? Um, during periods when you are and are not meeting quota? I’ll go back to some of the other findings here, but this just really stood out and a a, a majority of the participants said, yeah, you know, my, my level, the level of teamwork I have with my coworkers and sometimes my direct, uh, partner, uh, really influence my engagement sometimes even more than, than what my supervisor does.
And so when, when you look through the, the study that I did, you know, some of the things you would say, Hey, yeah, uh, okay, that makes sense. I’m not shocked by, by some of what you’re sharing there, but to take it a step deeper and say, all right, well, what are we doing? We already know this. So we we’re learning that and we know that there’s this, uh, incredible, um, effect on engagement based on, you know, the relationship you have with your coworkers, the collaboration.
But how, how much do we actually do with that? You know, hey, if, if someone has a problem. Two people, coworkers aren’t working well together. Yeah, we, we have these great plans that we’ll put together, but how much are we taking advantage of the fact that we know this is variable that we can influence? How much time are we training our leaders?
How much time are we spending with coworkers to, to teach them how to really, truly be great teammates? How to great partners. From, from a business standpoint as well as just a relational standpoint. And do we do that consistently over time? Yeah, we could say, yeah, we had a workshop on that when they went through training or we did a, a, a one hour workshop at a meeting.
But truly is, is that enough? Is that really what’s going to take a advantage, give us an advantage for our people and make them more engaged? I think we could do better. I think we could all do a lot better there.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah, I, and you, I, I love this one. Uh, uh, because it’s basically also taking it as a leader once you develop those skills to ensure that you create an environment where people know how to collaborate and love collaborating and enjoys being with one another.
Right? Like, it, it’s also as a like, for you as a teammate and for you as a leader to create those environments, right? Because it’s. A lot in leadership. I’m not, I’m not sure if you’ve seen that also in your research. I’d be intrigued, but you know, I, I believe a lot in the ecosystem you build and as a leader around you, right?
For, for your people to thrive and how you build this culture and this environment for everyone to be at their best. So what was it, did you touch on some of those aspects or have you seen this in the research, especially on this engagement part? In the ups and downs.
Basil Upton: Yeah, so I saw, we looked, I looked more into that aspect of it in the relationship between the supervisor, uh, and the, uh, sales representative.
And you know, as I said with the first research question. The, the sales professionals weren’t really sure what the leader’s style was. They could describe the behaviors, but what their actual style was and then what drove them, what was, you know, the foundation of it, you know, they weren’t sure. Um, believe it or not, when the sales fluctuated, so do the behaviors.
And some the surprise. Yeah, total surprise. And sometimes it worked out well. Sometimes the changes, uh, produced worse engagement. So the, you know, factors that were really driving, you know, the, the positive results, the positive engagements related around active listening, uh, empathy. So EQ was a, a definite part.
And then, um, being able to, uh, roll up your shirt sleeves and get in there with your people and work together to make the change. It’s, it reminded me of the, the old. Leadership saying that you hear where leaders tell their people, don’t come to me with problems, come to me with solutions. Those were the, the type of behaviors that led to negative engagement.
But the leaders that said, come to me with your problems. Let’s sit down together and try to find out a solution that led to positive engagement. Um, I, I think that the recognition that was there. Uh, is is extremely important to, to drive the engagement, recognition of those that are overcoming the barriers that are dealing with circumstances that are outside of their control.
Environments change, uh, and the, you know, when the environment changes, it doesn’t mean you as a professional. Are not working as hard, or your skills aren’t as sharp or you’re not as, uh, committed. Um, most of those times people are, are working even harder to try and, uh, overcome that. So that recognition, the acknowledgement, strong eq, uh, especially active listening and uh, empathy really were some of the things that, uh, that, that, that, you know, drove the level of engagement that the sales professionals were feeling.
Naji Gehchan: So based on what you, after your research, your journey, your amazing experience across, um, different, different jobs and even the psychology piece. I, I, that’s, I always learn from, uh, something new about you when I meet with you, man. Uh, but really across all of those, is there an advice. You would give your younger self as you started being like first time manager, first time leading a team?
Basil Upton: Oh yeah. We could, we could, uh, a whole lot and I would say, uh, base will sit down. We have a lot to talk about. Uh, you know, when I was first trained in leadership, um. And, and when I first became a, a supervisor, uh, at Lilly, you know, I was, you know, cautioned to, to not, um, I would say get too close to people.
So it was the true traditional transactional style of leadership. And now where am I at the, in my opinion, the opposite end of that spectrum as a servant leader. So I would say, uh, here’s why. Servant leadership is the, the, uh, way to, to, uh, pursue, um, your style. This is the approach that needs to be your, your North star.
Um, that
the, the ability to. Help people outside of their job is a gift to, to understand the, the, the power that, uh, uh, an employer has, the effect that it has on their employees’ lives outside of work is tremendous. The amount of time they spend at work, the, the, the effect it has on, on someone’s, um. Physical and emotional wellbeing.
It’s, it’s a, it’s an incredible responsibility and to be first and foremost, so much aware of that. And I, I take it to, to be similar to what you had to do when you graduated from Medi Medical School and took the Hippocratic Oath. Do you know, first, do you no harm? Uh, that is what I would definitely tell my, tell myself if I had the opportunity to go back and, and start all over again, and then go back to some of the, the people I first manage and apologize for, I’m being a very good leader.
Yeah,
Naji Gehchan: yeah. No, but what, what you said is, uh, you know, I think a lot about it. Um. You said something really powerful that few managers as we start, think of right, the impact that you have on people’s lives. Mm-hmm. You know, not only growing them professionally, but as you, as you very well stated, it’s, it’s beyond that, right?
Like, how do they live in interaction they have with you? Are it tremendous responsibility? Are they depressed? Are they happy? Yeah. Do they feel better? Like at some point, you and I discussed this, but like having this framework in your head, like every, I want every interaction to be, to end up in a way where people feel good about themselves, even if it’s a very tough, crucial conversation about performance.
Basil Upton: Mm-hmm.
Naji Gehchan: Right. So I, I love how you framed it because yeah, we have a huge responsibility as managers. Of people, and we all lived different managers, right? Mm-hmm. And so their impact on ourselves. So I’m fascinated, like how we don’t sometimes think about it, like, yeah, like if I suffered from this, I shouldn’t probably replicate it.
Basil Upton: Yeah. There needs to be a very, uh, serious conversation for anybody when they begin, uh, their journey in leadership. Around the, the impact that they are going to have and how powerful that is. It doesn’t matter where you are, what industry, what level, but when you get into that, you need to, you need to be prepared and accept that responsibility.
You need to have, uh, a great system around you. To keep you grounded. You know, when we look at eq, um, I was, I was attending a, a, a talk the other day about, um, leadership and, and the presenter talked, was, was discussing EQ and said, you know, as a leader you need to be open to feedback. And, and I, I, I completely agree, you need to be open to feedback, but more importantly, you need to seek out.
Feedback, seek out diverse feedback. Don’t go to the people that you know are, are, know you well and will, um, that, that you see things similarly. It’s not going to be helpful for you and it’s not gonna be helpful for, for your people. So you, you absolutely need to get that feedback loop in there. Very strong.
Naji Gehchan: Yes. Yes. It, you’re touching so many different things you’re both passionate about, right? Like taking feedback, it’s humility also of accepting it. Mm-hmm. Acting on it, the diversity in those feedback. Certainly. I, I’m gonna go to a section you know very well where I’m gonna give you a word and I want to reaction to it.
Absolutely. And the first one we’ve been discussing quite a bit, but I always love to start with this. It’s leadership.
Basil Upton: Okay. So for, for me, when you, when I first hear leadership, I, I default to what’s the definition of leadership and then, um, you know, through, through the program, um, one of the authors of.
Our, our most impactful textbooks was, um, Peter North House. And, you know, based on, on what I learned there, I, I see the definition as influencing others through, uh, kindness, empathy, um, candor and accountability to achieve results. You know, I think he would boil it down probably more basic, where it’s, you know, could almost be influencing others to achieve results.
Another great definition of leadership I heard from, uh, an amazing leader I worked for once was, uh, leadership is love with discipline. That sound familiar?
Naji Gehchan: Oh, man.
Basil Upton: Yeah. Love with discipline. But again, it’s interesting if you were to sit down with 10 different people and ask them what’s your definition of leadership?
Just how different the responses, uh, could be. Is that good? Is that bad? I don’t know. Maybe, but, uh, I would say. You know, look at, you know, do you have actually a, a definition of it? You know it when you see it, but can you define it and to have that definition? So I think, I think people forget that with servant leaders, that there still is accountability.
Uh, you call it a discipline, um, that needs to be there. But you want to create an environment where people are, are okay. When that difficult or crucial conversation comes up, they’re okay with it. The best of the best will be looking for it. Um, but for you as a leader, you, you, you have to do a lot of work to make sure your team is ready for that and want to do that.
But yeah, when, when you say, all right, what comes to mind when you say leadership? I, I default to, to the definition and, um, yeah. You, you, your, uh, your definition stuck with me. Oh, thanks. Yeah, a few changes, but discipline, you
Naji Gehchan: should,
Basil Upton: it’s your style. It’s, it’s direct, it’s, it’s simple, but effective. I love it.
Naji Gehchan: Oh, thanks. That means a lot. The second one is performance
Basil Upton: performers or performance?
Naji Gehchan: Uh, performance.
Basil Upton: Performance, I think. Wow, that’s a, I wasn’t anticipating that one. You, you there. So performance. Performance is, is the discipline. It is the accountability. It, it’s your scorecard. Um, I think you people could say, Hey, you know what, I, I’m not a competitive person, but you still want to do the best in, in aspects of your life, I would hope.
So performance, um, you know, it certainly is, is something that it varies. I’d have to say that based on my research, uh, and you need to be prepared for the changes that come with changes in performance. I
Naji Gehchan: What about Nexus?
Basil Upton: Nexus. Love that one. A lot of people aren’t as in tune. So some, in some ways that’s an inside joke.
But, um, yeah, nexus that, uh, catalyst for change that comes in and the, uh, pinnacle of where greatness is. Absolutely. Tell me again, old friend, you got me again?
Naji Gehchan: Oh, yeah, yeah. That was like for the listeners. That was the name of our team.
Basil Upton: Yeah.
Naji Gehchan: Part of, uh, the last one is Spread Love and Organizations.
Basil Upton: Yeah.
I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I think I’m gonna stump you on on, or surprise you on, on this one. And, and for me, spread love in organizations is challenging the status quo. It is, you know, if we look at how do you, how do you know, how do you, how would you measure if there is love in your organization? My bias, employee engagement.
Is it, is it important? No, it’s crucial. It’s critical. It’s a lifeblood. You, you have to have the love there. So if it’s so important, then why the heck? Isn’t it a performance measurement, a KPI for companies? You know, we’re, you know, if, if you’re giving your quarterly earnings report to Wall Street, you’re talking about, you know, uh, what those earnings are, why aren’t you also saying, and guess what?
Here’s our employee engagement. I don’t care. It doesn’t have to be a company that’s on Wall Street. It could be any business, any nonprofit, any organization out there if they were to publish what their employee engagement score is. How would that impact the performance of the company? I have, again, I think it would dramatically increase it.
You know, you’re shopping for any type of of service and you can see what the employee engagement score is, where are you going to go? And I would just, I would love to see, um, finally some. Quantitative data that shows or more, uh, in, in a way that people will finally act on that shows here’s the company’s employee engagement score, here is their performance.
Because we, we talk a lot about, um, the importance of employee engagement, but where do the things like training people, uh, training leaders continually on eq, collaboration skills, uh, all of those things that affect it, where do they appear in the, in the shuffle of what’s getting done at the company and where the company spends their time?
It’s not, I think a lot of times it is just not there because people are saying, well, I know that if I pull this lever, I’m gonna see this change in performance. Whether it’s it, it could be in any situation. But so for me to spread love in organizations right now in this world, it is to challenge the status quo because there’s not enough of it out there.
Am I right or am I wrong?
Naji Gehchan: Man, I’m biased. So, you know, so you know which side I will take. Uh, I love it and I love how you’re framing it. Any final word of wisdom? Uh, basically for healthcare leaders around the world?
Basil Upton: Yeah, I, I would challenge I of the leaders you’ve had, so over. About what a 160 or so leaders that you’ve had on your podcast to honestly go back and seek feedback.
How have you spread love in your organization since you’ve been a guest on NA’s show? How have you taken. Your future leaders, your talent pipeline sat down with them and said, let’s talk about spreading love in an organization. What does that mean? Uh, I, I remember, you know, one of the, the things you, you said to our, our leadership team when we were discussing, uh, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
You said, we need to get to the point where DEI is in our DNA well. Spread love in organizations concept needs to be in the curriculum for future leaders. And if everyone on your, uh, uh, any, every one of your guests, all of us were to go back and say, okay, gimme feedback. How am I doing this? How can I get better doing it?
We’d get wonderful, innovative ideas from incredible people that would drive the engagement. And guess what? Help more customers, help more patients, help the people that that we serve every day, because that’s what we do. We serve others. Those are my final thoughts, my friend.
Naji Gehchan: Well, my friend, thank you so much for being with me today.
I, um, I more than enjoyed it. I miss working with you, but who knows what the future holds.
Basil Upton: You never know. Things keep coming full circle.
Naji Gehchan: Thanks again for being with me today, so it was a great chat.
Basil Upton: Thank you Dr. Naji Gehchan. Appreciate you.
Naji Gehchan: Thanks for listening to the show. For more episodes, make sure to subscribe to spread love io.com or whatever you listen to podcasts.
Let’s inspire a change together and make a positive impact in healthcare. One story at a time.
Naji Gehchan: Thanks for listening to the show! For more episodes, make sure to subscribe to Spreadloveio.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Let’s inspire change together and make a positive impact in healthcare, one story at a time.
Follow us on LinkedIn and connect with us on spreadloveio.com. We’re eager to hear your thoughts and feedback. Most importantly, spread love in your organizations and spread the word around you to inspire others and amplify this movement, our world so desperately needs