Naji: Hello, leaders of the world. Welcome to spread love in organizations, the podcast for purpose-driven healthcare leaders, striving to make life better around the world by leading their teams with genuine care, servant leadership, and love. I’m Naji joined by Dr. Bogdana Coudsy, vice president, head of global medical franchise for vaccines, specifically at Sanofi Pasteur a medical director, uh, medical doctor by training and pharmaceutical marketing, uh, by trade.Bogdana has an impressive resume and career. She’s held consequential leadership roles across the globe at Johnson and Johnson, Procter and Gamble. And now leading the medical teams of influenza franchise for AOF pasta as a leader and expert in vaccine and immunology, she makes a daily population level impact on public health on the front. And, I can go on and on presenting and talking about Bogdana but I’m eager to hear it all from her. So I’ll stop here and Bogdana, please let me welcome you. Thank you so much for being with me today.

Bogdana Coudsy: Thank you, Naji. It’s a, it’s a real pleasure being with you and, uh, being able to add my voice to your collection of inspiring leaders.

Naji: Great. And let’s start with your story with your personal story. to, uh, to hear all that you will give us. I, I always like to start with amazing leaders like you by if you can tell us a little bit what’s in between the line of your impressive resume of your career, uh, who you are as, as a person, and what brought you to where you are today.

Bogdana Coudsy: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. What, what I can say, uh, I would say just that I’m, uh, a normal person, a person with, uh, a purpose in life that is not different from what other people are having. Um, I think I always wanted to make the difference to bring my contribution to, for a great purpose to impact positively the, the life of people around me.

So maybe. Maybe I build this in a different way than other people, because I started, uh, with a profession looking to help patients one at the time. Um, but finally, yeah, it felt maybe it was not enough. So. I did not follow my initial scenario and I wanted something different, um, a job that was giving me the possibility to contribute, not a patient at the time, but a group of patients and even population.

And, um, so entering in the pharma industry was an evidence for me. And, uh, I started my career having a vision, um, this vision and, uh, an ambition, but not really a plan because I, I was not knowing exactly where this path, uh, will bring me. So as many people, I, I build a career step by step, following this purpose, following the opportunity, um, to grow and, uh, to learn, uh, in my career.

And, um, yeah, I worked in, in big companies in different roles, uh, that each of them brought me a lot of learning opportunities, satisfactions, but especially, I would say true encounters with people that, uh, counted for me and are, and still count for me. And I would say that, um, finally my leadership journey was very much in influenced by the people I met and, um, It’s really something, uh, that I consider as luck.

Uh, I had, I had a lot of luck to, to meet great leaders, um, amazing people that, uh, inspired and that motivated me. And I, I, yeah, I can say that. Um, I follow their path, uh, uh, while trying to build mine and, um, to learn, to manage and to become a leader, uh, myself. Um, and again, the fact that, uh, I had opportunities in the career, uh, and I was building on, on this, I, I think was the, the key success factor here.

Um, I had opportunity to manage people, um, and I. Discover that I like that very much. Um, I like developing, uh, young talent and, uh, helping, uh, at their tone to find their past. And this is giving me a lot of satisfaction. And, uh, also a lot of positive energy that I will say is, uh, fueling my tank in order to continue this leadership journey.

Naji: Yeah. With all that you have to do, especially these days running the vaccine franchise for a. Specifically respiratory influenza’s. Yeah. I’m sure you have tons of things to do and inspire people. And what a better way. I, I love how you framed it from one patient at a time to now impacting the population and, and being part of the public health.

Um, how would you, uh, if, if we take this as you’re a purpose driven person and you were. As a physician, helping patients immediately, how are you driving this purpose across your team? Making sure that you’re telling me you were in a meeting with 50, with 5,000 people that before we were together today, how, how do you drive this passion for patients in their day to day jobs?

Where sometimes it’s, it might be child. We, we, this big picture and the no.

Bogdana Coudsy: Yeah, it’s a very, it’s a very, very good question. I, I think that, um, uh, you know, we, we don’t, uh, have to forget that, uh, the companies are made by people and all these people are having a purpose. And very often in the pharma industry, um, the, there are a lot of people with the same purpose that are searching, uh, to impact in a positive way.

The, the life of patients, the life of population, uh, So finally you are building on, on the same, um, common values. And when you are, um, considering the, the different activities, the different clinical trials that we are wishing to build the, the, the different, uh, I would say, ask. Of, uh, a better, uh, care for people that is, uh, at the core of everything we are doing, I would say everything is based, uh, you know, on, on this desire to, uh, to bring, uh, a better health for the people around us.

And, um, I would say it, it, it’s really easy to speak about this with the different colleagues from the different functions, because we are having this, uh, profound, um, belief and, uh, and sense of purpose that we are doing our job for that bringing new S or new vaccines to, to the population that are needing it.

Um, having a way to. Check, I would say also to, to, to do a research, to be sure all the time that, uh, what we are bringing to the markets as pharma, um, industry is really well used. And it’s in favor of the people that are using it. I think it’s at the core of everything we are doing, uh, in, in the different departments.

So, um, I would say it, it’s not difficult to be a, a physician in pharma industry because very often we are speaking the same language, uh, between the, the different departments between the R and D um, uh, with our colleagues from regulatory, et cetera, Pharmac vis, but also the others in marketing, et cetera.

Um, because at the end, we are all, uh, concern about the patient and we want to do what is the best. So I would say from that point of view, I, I, I found my place quite rapidly when

Naji: I and just added beautifully, right? Like sharing, sharing the same, uh, values and then being committed to the same purpose of helping patients live better is, is.

What you’re, how you’re uniting the teams cross-functionally towards it. Um, and , I, I can, but ask you the question with the pandemic. Like you’re in the vaccines. You’re. I imagine you and your team are relentlessly working to take the population and all of us out of this, um, of this pandemic and what’s going on, um, you know, without going into the details of, of what you’re doing, but, but I’d love to have the learning.

What, how you’re driving those teams. Obvious. Obviously the purpose here is even bigger. I it’s palpable. They can feel it live it every day. Uh, with ups and downs, I imagine. Also there is the complexity. I find the vaccines out, the resilience that you have to build as you are building, um, the different programs.

Is there any, you know, major learning that you had working in such a crucial team in a crucial time? I would say for humanity, is there any, any specific fake learning that you have.

Bogdana Coudsy: A lot of learnings, I would say, uh, really, uh, and I, I think that this is, uh, unprecedented era to live in. Uh, and, um, while working in, uh, in vaccines, uh, I would say, uh, as, uh, as a medical professional, you are feeling that you are having double responsibility.

Um, Everybody was feeling frustrated, uh, when this pandemic started and expanded so much. Uh, and, uh, you know, we were frustrated not to find a rapid solution because everybody was thinking that with the level of the techno the technological level that we are having today, it’ll be. Uh, rapidly, uh, possible to find a solution, uh, at least, uh, for several aspects for, and we learn finally that, um, we were not prepared really, uh, to face this kind of situation.

So even in if in, uh, the. Biggest countries you are having, um, organization that are looking to the pandemic prep partners. Um, it was more authority model that the people were taking. And, uh, when this is happening in real life, you understand that it’s so complex. There are several, um, important, very important aspects that you need to master that finally, um, you know, it’s, it’s not, um, possible to have, uh, a very rapid response and I’m.

I’m still very inspired, but what happened in front of this threat? The fact that, um, the big pharma started to create partnerships and alliances with the academia that, um, we, we had, uh, this, uh, really strong, uh, positive dynamic and, uh, energy that was put it in order to together in order to describe the virus rapidly.

To find, uh, solutions, uh, what are the antigens that, uh, will be needed to, to be using the vaccine? A lot of exchanges between the, on the scientific topics between the, the different partners and the, that are, uh, influencing the ecosystem that it’s around all the infectious diseases, uh, including the, the, the Pharmac companies.

And for me, this was a very good sign to, to show that when there is a major threat for the humanity would be. Find the power to go in the same direction to have a convergent, um, of a conversion vision to, to, to go on the same, uh, you know, over the same, uh, the same purpose, whatever, if, uh, you are a physician working in a, in a hospital or if a healthcare professional taking care of this.

People, um, also happy to give feedback and to inform, uh, what work, what didn’t work, uh, as in the beginning or not having any protocol, nobody was knowing how to manage these, these patients. So that was the second frustration. I would say, where as physician, you want to go there, you want to go to hospital and to help people.

And sometimes it’s quite frustrating to say, okay, you have to accept that. Um, There are processes, uh, for the development of new, new drugs, new, new vaccines. And this is taking time, uh, and in the same time to manage this inpatient and this need to do something rapidly to find, to, to be part of the solution for this pandemic.

Yeah. And I would say on, on the other hand, uh, when you are looking to the situation as leader of a team, as, as manager of the team, there is, uh, I would say a certain aspect of all this frustration that it’s it’s arriving is that a. The people are wishing, uh, you know, to continue to produce value, to, to bring their contribution to all this.

Um, but with the social distancing and the fact that we are not really having, uh, um, I would say the reflects to, to work a distance for. Long time, like, uh, like it happened now months and months not to see each other, uh, it’s creating a burden on, um, I would say really the, the wellbeing, the psychological wellbeing of people, because they’re having the frustration they want to do.

A lot of things, very fast to contribute more and the same time to be far away from the others and to have to accept, uh, this kind of engagement to be the others only via telephone or via zoom meetings. So that’s another aspect that I had to manage and I, I was trying to, um, add even more humanity and even, uh, warmer, uh, Words and, and kindness to my team in the exchanges we were having, having also moments where we were speaking person to person, not, um, only about, uh, the job, our activities, but, uh, what we have to do and how to track that.

But also about how you are doing, how your family is doing. Um, let’s have a moment together to, to, to laugh, to take things less seriously, because it’s important all this in order to continue to have this relation and to continue to build on the trust. Yeah. Uh, it,

Naji: it unfortunately took us a terrible.

Pandemic right. To get back to the human side of us at work as human beings. And, and what you’re saying is definitely one of the key pieces for us all as leaders and well, what, what you lived even on the front line as vaccines is, is really great to hear, right? Like the collaboration, how healthcare overall.

Pharma regulators, uh, patients, physicians, we, we tried at least to stand altogether to bring us a solution for humanities. So, yeah. Thank you so much for sharing, um, your experience with this. Uh and you know, one, if, if we talk about this leadership. Uh, spec in, in this specific moment, you talked about kindness.

You talked about how you are building relation virtually with your people, even at an individual, um, basis. Uh, can I imagine for you even more, as you are kind of on the front line of, of the vaccines, the pressure you’re getting, not only internally. Everyone is looking at me like all the companies, the government, uh, I meant, well, Sanofi is a French company.

Like we, we heard how many times even the president was talking about it. So how, how well I’m interested in twofolds first, you personally, as leading this team. How did you manage this? How did you get the energy for yourself? Making sure that you take care of yourself, you take your kind to yourself and then how you manage to get this kindness to your team.

Uh, you know, looking, looking backwards and forward. I don’t think those pressors stopped for you. So we would love to hear this.

Bogdana Coudsy: It’s a very good question. So I would say first of all, um, uh, you know, for me, people are counting very much. So I, as, as I was saying, this sense of purpose, uh, for me is what is driving, uh, driving me in all situation.

And, um, I, I. Care about people. So, uh, when, uh, you know, I, I know very well that, uh, all this, uh, situation, uh, is not, uh, easy to manage. Um, having my teams working in teleworking from home with small children, not having a space for them to, to, to work or, you know, we were, um, looking also from that point of view, how we can support them better.

And for me, You know, it was, um, really the challenge was to mix between my role as manager and my role as leader, because, um, to, to explain a little bit, first of all, as we are having the commitment, uh, a public health commitment to, to deliver what was needed, uh, you know, in terms of vaccines, everything around and the development that.

The, the, the program of development that we are running, it was important at the same time to check that the people can continue to work in an effective way. Uh, so this is a management part to say that you organize the work differently in order to allow to people, to, to, to continue to create value and to, to contribute.

To, uh, these objectives that we are having in terms of vaccine development, uh, clinical studies, communication, et cetera. But in the same time, I was needing also to, um, to balance with my leadership role, giving to people, uh, also, uh, moments, uh, where they were. Able to, to, to share, to, to say, yeah, it’s tough.

It’s a complex situation. Uh, it’s not only about delivering, but, uh, it’s, it’s also about how best to, um, deal to cope with the situation as people in order to, to stay in good healths, uh, in order to. Stay motivated and to, to be able to continue to produce, uh, value for, for our company, because the purpose is so important, as you were saying, the responsibility is so high.

Plus the visibility is so high that you cannot miss your target. You cannot, uh, do your work only at 50% cause it’s having a lot of consequences and you cannot afford that. So. You know, having the balance between these two roles, uh, continuing to, uh, lead people, to inspire them, to show the direction, even if, uh, sometimes was hard.

Uh, we were having, uh, to, to keep the people engaged and motivated, but the same time to recognize, to acknowledge that it’s hard for everybody to, to, to be able to organize their, uh, work life in order to allow a personal life. For me, it was very important. And again, I’m coming back to, uh, people are counting very much.

I, uh, you know, I have a style of management that I, I think it’s based on good sense and a lot on empathy and, um, I’m thinking about, uh, what the, the person in front of me is experiencing and, uh, having, uh, you know, all the time, this in mind, uh, in terms of how we do things and, uh, how we can. Support and have, uh, um, have all the en environment, allowing them to organize themself better, for example, to deliver the work that they were needing, uh, having, um, hours, for example, to let them have lunch, uh, with their families to take care of small kids, et cetera.

So this is not something that in the, I say normal conditions, uh, a leader is putting. You know, as high priority, but for me it was because it’s, it’s, you know, really so important to be able to, to, to keep, uh, our, our teams motivated and in good shape. Psychologically and physically that, uh, it’s, it’s really, you cannot miss that as manager.

It’s really, really important.

Naji: Yeah. And the, the first sentence you said was I care about people. I think this is this it’s really, we feel it as you’re talking, right? Like this balance of leadership management. I know you are also, we, I had the opportunity and chance to work with you, uh, for some time. And it’s you, you, you have it, we feel it, you care for people.

And, and as you said, like, this is how you drove it. And this is obviously what’s getting this balance and the results, uh, in your organization. Right. And keeping you move forward.

Bogdana Coudsy: Absolutely. And I haven’t, I, I have the chance to work in an organization where, you know, uh, this type of leadership and, uh, I would say, um, possibility to, to shape your leadership in a personal, authentic way.

It’s allowed. Because I think that this is important. I, I don’t have a lot of experience of, uh, other industries and, uh, how did this, uh, can happen in, in, in other companies? Um, but, uh, I think that in, in pharma companies, as we are having this. Uh, um, important purpose of, uh, human health and supporting human health.

First, I think also that, that there is, uh, more sensibility in terms of source of senior management to allow to people to bring this kind of management that is really, um, Influence by the humanity, by the empathy and where you are driving, uh, people in a direction that is, you know, really following the, the, the better good, the good of, uh, say the impact, the positive impact on a society and being kind once with the others, especially in periods like this one, for me, it was the only way and working the company that is allowing this was very important.

Because you need the same time to, to feel this support from your management that, uh, you know, it’s not considered that, uh, it’s a weakness, but it’s considered that it’s a strength because you ensure that the, the, the people you’re having in the team, you know, are continuing to live, uh, you know, the life of most normal possible, and to continue to be able to focus also in the work that is, uh, very important.

Naji: Yeah. And that’s a crucial point. And as you said, it’s, it’s a strength, not a weakness. And, and I, I think the fact that you’re saying it spontaneously, because many times we heard around genuine care or, you know, I, I, I call it spread love. Right. Which is really genuinely caring for one another. And being here for one another many times, you would hear, okay, Yeah, this is the soft, soft things, right?

Like it’s not what, what will work, where in fact, what I’m hearing from you and my personal beliefs is this is the core. Of how we make sure that we’re driving our shared purpose, we’re driving our people towards a bigger why, and it will bring amazing results. And, and, and again, you gave this concrete example, uh, a moment of crisis where the word needs you most, the first thing you said, I care about people and I’ve been leading people with genuine care for, for you to be able to deliver as a team on what the word is expecting from you.

Bogdana Coudsy: Yeah, absolutely very important moment. And I, I hope that, uh, after the pandemic will be controlled, we will still, uh, consider this kind of management more and more. And, uh, this kind of leadership allowing to spread it more. Cause unfortunately it’s not, uh, in the majority of the minds of leaders, Uh, there are some people that are, you know, not yet considering that this, this is maybe for me, it’ll be for sure the way in the future, we will be able to, uh, mix generation to work with millennials to, to, to be able to in the same time to work with seniors, because at the end, what we are having in common are our values and our humanity.

Wow. So yeah, from my side, I really, really hope, and I’m very optimistic about this, that there are profound changes in our society, but also in the, the way we are considering the leadership, uh, in, in the future that this will change. And, um, I think this authentic leadership will based on kindness and, um, recognition of the human being needs.

Because for me, that’s a need having, uh, you know, that that kind of approach it’s really important. So I think that this, this will be the future. You tell me if you are having the same vision

Naji: I, I definitely am. And it’s really the core of why this podcast even started and exists. It’s it’s really this, uh, I, I have the vision and I’m, I’m committed like you, uh, as a leader to make sure that we are, we’re changing the way we, we lead people and we manage with humanity and care, as you said, for, for a bigger purpose.

So I, I would love to play a game with you now. Uh, what, yeah, what I will do is saying one or two words, and I want your top of mind, uh, thought that would come. Sounds good.

Bogdana Coudsy: Yes, absolutely.

Naji: Right. So the first word, um, women in leadership,

Bogdana Coudsy: I didn’t catch it. Sorry. Can you repeat? Yes.

Naji: Women, women in leadership.

Bogdana Coudsy: Wow. Women in leadership. Wow. F for me, this have to be M in the future. I think that, uh, it’s something that we need to support, uh, to, to, to have more female leader. This is a lot of articles. A lot of books were written on this topic, but I’m convinced that, uh, this, uh, this is something that, uh, will happen.

And, uh, I I’m a really. Um, support for the young female leaders that I’m having in my team and my organization to help them to arrive these future leaders, to arrive, to become a true leader recognized in the, in the organization. And I think that it’s also part of the responsibility for, uh, professional like me, uh, that, uh, have already, uh, quite a, uh, quite a solid experience behind that is a responsibility to help the.

The future female talents to arrive to leadership positions.

Naji: Totally agree. And yeah, each of us, you know, as, as man leader being sure that we’re advocating for, for women and women in leadership, I don’t have you framed it. Synonyms. What about the word digital? I know you’re passionate about this.

Bogdana Coudsy: Yes, uh, digital for me.

Uh, it’s a chance. Uh, I, I think that, um, it was a real chance for all of us that the, the digital channels of communication were developed already that the internet and this connection was existing, uh, because I can even not imagine what would be a pandemic like this. Without being able to, to connect at all, to have the, uh, you know, the, the, the, all the tools that are need in order to continue to, to interact exchange with people.

Uh, so yeah, it’s a chance we now need to take advantage of the revolution that this pandemic make brought in same time in terms of the. Digitalization the interest of the companies and also the way we are considering the digital channels. Um, I, I think that, um, the progress will arrive. Thanks to the digitalization.

So let’s, let’s look to the future. I’m convinced that, uh, uh, it’s, we will learn a lot from this pandemic period and, uh, we will, we’ll continue to build on this, uh, you know, and I’m looking to the importance that took telemedicine, for example, uh, and, uh, how important, and it was when the people were, uh, in the first.

The wave of, uh, pandemic and, and we were having, uh, lockdowns everywhere, uh, being able to have physician that consulted in, in teleworking and doing, you know, telemedicine was really critical. It was the only way to, to have, um, uh, a medical support, uh, sometimes. So it’s one of the aspects, but there are so many that I don’t I will not take the time to, to go in all this, but I would say is the, the one that for me, I think it was, uh, for people, for some people it was life changing.

Naji: Yeah. Yeah. The, the third word is red queen

Bogdana Coudsy: red queen.

Naji: Yeah, I, I saw something mentioning red queen in your, in your studies, on your, your all on top of all you have, you’re currently you’re currently studying, which is again amazing. So, so I read red queen and I’m intrigued to hear it from you.

Bogdana Coudsy: Yes, it’s, uh, it’s I would say my metaphor of the year.

Uh, in fact, indeed, I’m, I’m, uh, following an executive MBA here in Paris, and I have a very inspiring professor that is called Jeremy gas and, and he. Uh, share with us, uh, this, uh, this metaphor of the red queen from Alice, uh, on, in Wonderland where this, um, Alice was wishing to meet the red queen, but the red queen was moving so fast that, uh, Alice was seeing her on the right and she was running there, but, uh, the queen already, uh, going in another direction in the left.

And when Alice was arriving in the first. Place. She was finding that the queen is already not there, but, uh, she already moved. And for me, this metaphor is really important. Why? Because it’s showing, uh, you know, how important is to adapt to the en environment. The only way for Alice to catch the, the, and to speak to the red queen was to anticipate and to look not what will be, uh, her first, her next direction, her next step.

But the one after. And to be all the time, uh, you know, open to, to listen from the on environment and to understand, to try to interpret, uh, what is happening in order to stay on the top. Because otherwise, if you don’t change, uh, at, at the, the, the right speed, you are staying behind, and this is. For me, uh, really, really showing how is the current period with the pandemic, with the amount of scientific information, for example, that is existing with the, you know, with everything it’s happening.

That it’s really, uh, a metaphor that is showing how important is to adapt, to anticipate and to be in change, to, to, to embrace the change and to try to anticipate, uh, you know, not the next move, but the, the, the one after. And this can be applicable for a lot of things. Yeah. Career science, whatever you want.

Naji: Yeah. I’ll, I’ll definitely remember thread queen, uh, the last, the last word spread love in organizations.

Bogdana Coudsy: Yes.

Um, Maybe in some organization, this is Anno. Um, I, I think that for the moment, um, uh, I would say is, is rare to, to, to speak about love in the organization because, um, Uh, love is more having, uh, a link with a personal life and, uh, where you are opening yourself to say what you love. I love arts. I love theater.

I’m I’m, you know, I’m a, I’m, I’m a person that is affecting emotions and, um, Building on, on all this and having, uh, you know, I would say this soft part on us that is more exposed in personal life, that in, in the organizations, so. I think that for the moment, um, in a lot of organization, it’s not something that you can say that it’s, uh, uh, it’s a concept that is not existing yet, but I would, uh, I would like very much to, to, to support as you are doing today, uh, to have this concept spreading around and, uh, you know, having this soft part in us, Uh, accepting, accepted even at work.

This is the way I’m interpreting it. When we are speaking about this is that to accept and for the leaders and for the employees, that we are all having the soft parts in us, um, you know, that, uh, everything related to our emotions and this, uh, and our in general, the, the sentiments that we are having, and this is part of human beings that we are.

So this have to be. Integrated, uh, with the work in order, not, uh, you know, to deny at work, what is the most beautiful in human being the possibility to have this emotion?

Naji: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, with, with this, um, you know, I’d love to hear from you what you will be taking. You talked about genuine care. We just shared about how you perceive spread love, which is between genuine care emotions, hearing about the human side of us and, and being us at work.

How, how will you continue as you’re continuing this journey with vaccines and done, still to be done, how would you continue this, uh, in your organizing a stand.

Bogdana Coudsy: Oh, yeah. yes. I, I will say I will, um, especially continue what I started to do, uh, continue to, um, to show to my team, uh, empathy and understanding. Um, I hope that I will be able to find, uh, the words are resonating for them, for the people in order to feel that it’s a real. Um, you know, it’s a real care. I really care what is happening with them.

I really care. And, and I wish to help. Um, when, uh, you know, I, I want to, to bring this message inside is that we are stronger together and it’s not, uh, it’s not a political slogan. It’s something that we have, have to accept and to make it, uh, a strength, um, accepting that we are. Needing to connect the ones with the others to spend time, uh, in, uh, just Chi chatting, just, uh, uh, give a call to a person, even if you are having full of meetings, organize your time to have, uh, you know, also real exchanges about how you are doing genuinely, how it’s, what is happening in your country, where, what is happening in your environment, how you are coping with the lockdowns, you know, having being able to have this kind of mix between a.

Uh, I, I will say, delivering on the work and everything that’s expecting and, and, uh, yeah. Speaking, uh, from human to human about the emotion, about what is difficult to face for me, it’s important. So I hope really, as a leader that I can find the right words in order to give this message to, to, to my teams without being.

Blame and without, um, you know, having the impression that, uh, it’s more politics that, uh, that, uh, that anything. Yeah,

Naji: no, it you’re, you’re authentic and inspiring. Uh, Boga. It comes with authenticity. I think this is the main difference, you know, from yeah. Feeling it’s not genuine. The word it’s not politic.

Uh, you said you talked about leaders who inspire you. Uh, and also a professor who inspired you any specific leader or even a book potentially that you read recently that inspired you during those times and that you would recommend to our audience.

Bogdana Coudsy: Oh, yes. . There are a lot of, uh, there are a lot of, uh, good books and, and, uh, articles about management, about leadership that, uh, inspired me.

So I, I will maybe mention one that I, I really, I think that everybody already, uh, uh, had have this book, but anyway, uh, the is the Armenia Barr’s book, uh, think as a leader act as a leader, Um, for me, you know, this book and even his title be became after I, I, uh, I bought this book I read it. Uh, it become not only my motto, but also my everyday objectives.

Uh, you know, my everyday objective because what I want to, to do and to continue to build, uh, is a leadership that will allow me to, you know, to continue my part. And, uh, uh, have more impact, even more impact that now continue to grow, uh, in my career, continue to grow as a leader and bringing, um, this kind of leadership to be more recognized.

Um, so for me, this, uh, this book, uh, that was, um, yeah, that I, I had the chance to read was, uh, like an eye opener. Um, regarding inspiring people. Yeah. There are a lot now, as I’m, I’m doing this executive MBA, I’m, I’m having also the chance to, to meet very, very interesting personalities and, um, very clever people that are inspiring the others, uh, and the, the, the professor Jeremy guess is one of them.

But I would say at, uh, the last but not least, I, I have, uh, an amazing manager, uh, at work, uh, a woman leader that, um, I think, uh, shape, uh, what I am today because I’m working now with her for more than three years. And, um, I, I think that the fact that she’s trusting me and having the, the same values and the same, uh, giving the same support for this, uh, um, leadership that is an authentic and human, let me arrive at this stage where I consider myself a better leader.

That was three years ago.

Naji: Wow. With this. Do you have any final word of wisdom for the leaders in healthcare around the world?

Bogdana Coudsy: Um, yeah, I, I would say first of all, uh, trust yourself and, uh, in same time, uh, try to find around you, um, uh, role models. For me, it was very helpful, uh, to find role models, people that are inspiring you for this or that reason and learn from these people, uh, and be open to, uh, Taking, what is the, what is good in people?

Everybody is having something good and something you can learn from them, not only from the big inspiring leader, but also from your colleagues from also from your teams. And I have, yeah, I would say the, the, the lack to have, uh, an extraordinary team, uh, that have to live in order to go now on, on, on a new.

But, uh, you know, everything that I, uh, I experience with, uh, with my colleagues, with my team, uh, brought me where I’m here, where I’m now, uh, at, at the level where I found that I was inspired by all this, uh, People and I learn from them and I’m wishing to continue to learn from the other people that I will meet and to continue to inspire and to bring, uh, I would say again, uh, a positive dynamic and my, I would say my contribution.

For, for a better society, a better health. Uh, and, uh, yeah, this is what I would say to the young manager, trust yourself. And, uh, don’t forget to be authentic, to be the real you to be in line with your values, because it’s the only way this can function.

Naji: Thank you so much Bogdana again for being with me today, finding the time between studies work during a pandemic where your teams are relentlessly working to help us get out of it, uh, and, and sharing your story for, for us all, to continue leading with genuine care, with love for a better healthcare, around the world.

Naji: Thank you all for listening to spread love and organization’s podcast. Drop us a review on your preferred podcast platform

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