EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Jean-François Brochard

Naji Gehchan: Hello, leaders of the world. Welcome to “Spread Love in Organizations”, a podcast for purpose-driven healthcare leaders, striving to make life better around the world by leading their teams with genuine care, servant leadership, and love.

This episode is very special. In partnership with ESCP Business School, I’ll be giving the mic to students, our leaders of tomorrow, to discuss with incredible healthcare executives about their journeys and leadership beliefs.

ESCP Students: Hi everyone, we are Rita and Mohamed, two students at ESCP Business School in Paris, and we are delighted to be here today and welcome Jean François Brochard, General Manager of Roche France and Director and Chairman of the LEEM, which is a French organization and pharmaceutical companies. With over 25 years of experience in the pharmaceutical industry, Jean François held various leadership positions in both developed and emerging markets in Europe, North America, and Asia.

Before joining Roche France in 2018, he was the president of GSK France. He’s also the director and chairman of the Gross Regulation and Conventional Policy Commission at the LEEM. And in this podcast, we will discuss his career, leadership, and the future of the pharmaceutical industry in France and worldwide.

So, Jean François, thank you for being with us today. You’re welcome, Mohamed. This is, this is really a pleasure to share some of that. Hopefully the insights and experience that can benefit others. So, okay. Let’s start with a few questions if you want. So the first one, can you please tell us first a little about the major steps in your Kariv path and what marked you the most before you arrived at your current position?

Jean-François Brochard: Well, thanks. Thanks for the question about the career path. I think there’s always a lot of fantasy about career paths. So you asked me a very direct question, Mohamed, about, you know, what were the key steps? I think, you know, I must say, I, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been very, very lucky. Uh, I think my first job was actually in Mexico and I was I was thrown out of my, uh, native country.

Uh, I had to learn a language. I had to learn a different culture. And I, I think this, this has been the, one of the biggest opportunity in, in opening my eyes and, uh, expanding my horizons, you know, reaching in this, you know, At the time it was like 21 million people living in Mexico and, and, you know, and you had to make new friends and you had to learn the language.

And that was just, you know, I was what, 24 at that time and it was just fantastic. So I think there’s a bit of luck. And then I think I grew a passion for, uh, international career. And I had the chance to work in many different continents now and countries in the US, uh, in the Far East, in the Philippines, and then later in Europe, uh, in, in Belgium and Italy for a long time.

So I think one of the key thing is really, uh, the, the chance that I had was really to, uh, to have access to, uh, those opportunities. I created some, but most of, most of those opportunities were offered to me. And, uh, I think. You know, you don’t, I, one thing that I did is I did not overthink, uh, those opportunities.

I, I just jumped on them. Maybe it was, I was, uh, also, uh, I didn’t have a family, uh, uh, at a younger age, and that’s probably easier to move from, uh, I don’t know, the U S the Philippines and, and back and forth. But, uh, so I really think that, you know, you, you need to go and then, you know, learn and grow. Uh, so that, that’s one, one thing.

I think the international dimension would be my first answer. The second thing is, um, I was also very lucky to, to have a few, uh, very inspiring leaders, very inspiring mentors that were, you know, both I think integrating Uh, what I would call in French, uh, exigence, which means demanding, but in a positive way, and then also a lot of support.

So they were integrating both those things, you know, being very supportive and being very demanding. And, you know, they were also, uh, giving, you know, me a lot of trust, at least I think of two of them. Which were amazing in, in both as in all models, you know, the way, you know, I would, I would pick up a lot of their good habits and the things that I really liked about them, the way they were, they were visionary about the business, the way they were supportive with the teams.

And I think, you know, having great mentors is a good thing up to a certain level, actually, where I think that, uh, if in your career, you don’t feel. You have a strong mentors around you. It’s worth asking the question, Should I should I should I look for something different? And actually, I had to ask myself this this question a couple of times in my career, and one of the learnings I eventually did move to another job.

But I think I could have, I could have moved, I could have moved earlier. There’s, I don’t think there’s any experience which is worth, I would say, bearing, you know, a bad, a bad boss. So, you know, you, we, we need good mentors and sometimes, you know, they’re not your bosses, other people, but you need to have.

inspiring surrounding people, uh, if you want to go. So, you know, those are the two things. And then, you know, keep an open mind on things, you know, when, when you’re thrown out in, in the Philippines at what 20, you know, plus something, and you don’t know anything about, you know, being a general manager, but you, you ask to, to, to be one, don’t try to pretend just, you know, at least, uh, show that you’re, you’re eager to learn that, uh, you know, you work hard and you’re, you’re willing to also.

Uh, show some candor in your relationships. And eventually, you know, you, you, you, you, you manage through the, the content of the holes and, and you find your ways, you know, uh, with, with your uniqueness, this is what, you know, happened to me in the Philippines. Uh, and that was, that was always, you know, great, great, uh, experiences.

So I think those two things are, are, are the most important international and, and there’s probably much more things to it. Uh, especially, you know, the, the, the, the, I think what I kept about all those years outside of my native country is really the relationships that I, I, I built and that’s one and marvelous people.

Uh, and when they were not marvelous, I try either to adapt or change. And, uh, I think the other thing is also the. The chance to get to know another, another culture. Uh, and I think it, it make, makes you realize, you know how lucky you are, uh, at least in my native country, where you have, uh, free schools, free health, and you know, you come when you realize that people either in the Philippines or Mexico don’t have any of this and, and must fight very hard to get decent health or decent education.

Uh, you realize how lucky we are in some of our Western countries, and, you know, this gives probably more value to those great things. And I think it makes also me more prone to actually make sure that, you know, we preserve those extraordinary things we have in a country like France, like free education and free health.

ESCP Students: Okay, thank you very much for this interesting and complete answer. So, let’s move on to our second question. So, have you always wanted to be a leader? And do you think this is something that is innate or that can be built from scratch? Once again, thanks Mohamed for that very insightful question about, you know, either, you know, born or made leadership.

Jean-François Brochard: I think it’s a bit of both, actually, you know, I think we need to oppose both of those visions. You asked me the question directly, so I’m going to answer you directly. I don’t know if I always wanted to be a leader, but at some point I realized that at least trying to be one, trying to be effective and, and bring, bring people along.

So this is what, you know, leadership is about. Uh, not against, but with them is something that actually, you know, got me a lot of satisfaction and, and, you know, uh, and I felt good about, you know, bringing people along and, you know, having them on board on, on projects. So I was, I think, so you have to, you have to vibrate if you want, uh, to the signals of good leadership of, uh, at least effective leadership, if you don’t vibrate.

If you’re more interested in tasks or I don’t know, working on Excel sheets or doing whatever. Uh, I think it’s okay. You know, it’s not like, uh, leadership is more important than, you know, being an expert. Uh, and sometimes you don’t have to oppose those two things, but I, I think, yes, you have, you have to feel, you know, leadership is kind of right for you.

And both in difficult times, because obviously sometimes, you know, it hurts when, when you feel you’re not effective as a leader, you, you, you missed, I don’t know, you missed a take out with a, with one of your colleague, you, you actually, you thought that, uh, uh, the, the intervention you just made with your team actually was kind of, uh, I don’t know, not very engaging and this happened.

So. Uh, you both need to be stimulated by the things, you know, you want to improve, but also satisfied, uh, when, when you see signals, when you capture signals that, you know, whatever, uh, you’re doing is actually engaging people and they either, you know, uh, get more excited about their role or, you know, they want to engage more.

So you, you have to kind of like it. I think that this will be the first thing, the second thing, you know, the second part of your question about is it innate or is it something you can, you can actually work on it, as I said, you know, let’s not oppose those two things. I think if you are wired kind of to be, to, to be a leader, to vibrate to, uh, the, the good signals of leadership, I think it facilitates things.

But then I think there’s a lot of, uh, Things you can work. Uh, giving you an example. Maybe there’s something I was not doing very consistently at the beginning of my career. I was not, you know, at least sending strong signals that I was wanting feedback, including I would say challenging feedback. So I thought I had it all and you know, I didn’t need anyone to tell me, you know, what to improve.

And I think obviously this was a mistake because you need, you need, you need the looks of others and you can’t just see things through your own lens. And I think with the time I just opened to the idea that maybe people have a lot to tell me and a lot to teach me actually. So this is, this is one thing you need to be open to, uh, open to this.

And then also I think, You may do this in a very structured way. And most of the companies that provide you most of the tools, you know, the feedback, the 360s and, you know, some, some very structured models that helps you, you know, maybe grab some realities. And also all the. And if you don’t have the theory behind, uh, then you need to put this into practice.

But, you know, so I, I think you, once again, you need to look at those tools and those opportunities with a very open mind. There’s, there’s nothing to lose actually. And, and, you know, maybe sometimes it will hurt a little bit because some of the feedback say, well, you’re not very inspiring in this instance, or, you know, what you said did not really, I don’t know, help me in my job, or I think you can give me more support, but there’s nothing you can lose.

You, you, you, you just. The only thing you can, you can do is, you know, getting better at being a leader, uh, receiving this feedback. And I think, you know, I think probably I would say what differentiates, you know, um, improving leaders and, you know, playing leaders is precisely this ability to, to listen to feedback and be open to feedback, but, but not only to.

to hear, but actually to act and leverage this feedback as something you can, you can, you can actually, uh, actually change. So, you know, I received a lot of feedback in my, uh, in my career and when I started and I started, you know, I think I, I, I, due to this feedback, I evolved also from I would say self centered leader is maybe not, you know, the exact, uh, way I would put it, but that’s what comes to my mind, at least, you know, kind of self centered to something, which to something which looks more like, and I would say, uh, uh, team conscious and maybe collective centered, uh, leadership, uh, along those years.

And the, the, the, the way I grew this, I would say collective leadership is really through, through, through listening to feedback. And then, you know, reasoning and exchanging with colleagues and also looking at, you know, leaders that were doing this very well, uh, mentors back to the mentor question. So, you know, to your question, Mohammed, I think this is really about, uh, about both, you know, uh, and I, I think there’s always.

Always an improvement margin, you know, whatever the level you start from, uh, there’s always, but you need to enjoy it. You know, you need, you need to, you need to love coming to a room with 200 people and say, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to try to inspire them. I’m going to try to share some, some, something with them, which actually will help.

them to actually thrive. If you don’t like this, well, it’s going to be much harder, but, but there are, I think, many types of leadership too. And there may be less, you know, I don’t know, inspiring leadership, uh, more intellectual ones. I don’t know, but, uh, you know, I think you need to like it and you need to be open to, to, to progress.

Those are the two concepts that I would keep.

ESCP Students: Well, thank you again for sharing your different ideas on this topic. Thank you again. And, uh, now I will let the mic to Rita for the next step. Okay, so moving forward to question number three, how to maintain the commitment and motivation of your team in a sector where obtaining result and progress is a very long and uncertain process, specifically in moment of transformation or reinvention of the company.

Jean-François Brochard: Uh, thank you, Rita. For if I had the answer, I think it would be a noble price for leadership. I don’t think this exists, but we may want to invent this. Uh, the truth is, uh, I don’t know if there’s a recipe for this, uh, maintaining engagement. I think there’s a few, uh, there’s a few, I would say elements that would definitely help this, at least in my experience.

The first one is, I think you need you need to keep true to to the somehow the vision if you want the the inspiring elements and honestly, they can’t be 25 of them or you know, they need to be a few, a few, a few when you do a transformation. I think you need you need to be able to articulate the why of your transformation or the why you need to embark on a kind of a difficult journey.

in a very, you know, concise and simple way, you know, what are the two, three, four elements that you really want to change. And, um, you know, to give you a practical example, uh, when we, we had a very deep, uh, transformation, uh, within Roche. A few months ago, a few years ago, and it was really about rewiring the company, uh, from, from, you know, top to bottom, if you want.

And there was actually four principles that we wanted to, to materialize in the future that were not materialized now. So we wanted to have a more. Engaging partnership like relationships with our customers. We wanted to have a more fluid way of allocating resources in the company. We wanted to, uh, leverage digital, um, uh, more, uh, effectively.

And four, we wanted to start with the need in the market, the need from our customers. So you see four elements, not 25, just four of them. It’s, it’s maybe already too much. And we kept on, you know, like four, if you want both stars that would help us. Navigate through it. And I remember even in difficult times, like the teams were feeling a little bit, you know, this is too much and there’s a lot of change we need to go through.

And also, you know, uh, work force constant relationships where people are saying, that’s a lot of layoffs for, you know, this, you know, we were constantly, I was, Uh, able to constantly remind the why we are doing things. So this is one element is really, you know, kind of, you know, let’s, let’s remind us why we do things.

And if you can’t answer the question, why I think this will, this will demotivate your teams because they say what, you know, Uh, and the good thing about being clear about the why people can also position themselves from the beginning about, you know, do I want to embark in this or not? And I, I, we had a few people, not few, but you know, some actually said at the beginning, you know what, we’d rather work in a traditional way.

So we can actually leave the company. And I was absolutely all right. And I think at least, you know, engaging with why helps you, uh, not only. You know, uh, while you are transforming and when, you know, some, sometimes the weather is a bit rough, uh, but also at the beginning in, in having people, you know, asking the key questions, are you, are you up to this?

You know, that’s kind of the initial, initial contract. So that’s one thing. Uh, then the other elements, I think it’s about, uh, how would I, you know, I would call it proximity.

It’s being close to topics, it’s being close to problems, it’s being close to people, more importantly. You know, it’s about being there, especially when the times are rough. Because people will want to ask you a few questions, they will want to, you know, have a look at you, whether they feel you are still engaged.

Even because, you know, in those in those transformations are always rough times always and I think you and sometimes it’s okay to say, You know what? I don’t really have the answer, but I’m here. You know, I’m here to support and you know, we’ll find we’ll find a solution together on you always do eventually.

So I think it’s really about, you know, getting this this very close to, uh, to people and topics to understand And although also there’s one thing, you know, just to give you an example, we did one thing with the, um, uh, with, with the leadership team in the French affiliate of OSH, where we had this, uh, we, we called it, if you want the changing rooms, uh, so it’s like, you know, when you do collective sports, uh, whatever, this is usually have a moments in the, in, in the changing room where you can tell things, you know, very open hearts.

And, you know, so we didn’t have any, uh, obviously agenda for, for those moments. They, they lasted about half an hour from, from time to time. And we were, you know, sitting in a very comfortable sofas and we were throwing, you know, the things that would affect us. Uh, and amazing things actually emerged because at some point we realized that one of our colleagues.

We’re actually bearing most of the weight of the pain in the change. And, you know, it allowed, you know, the team to redistribute a little bit this, this pain and actually support our colleague just because, you know, we had, we had a safe space. There’s this changing room space. where you could actually actually, you know, talk with an open heart.

So those are the, you know, little tricks, uh, that, that helped, you know, maintain the, uh, the, the, the team very much engaged. But I think what eventually keeps the, um, the team, you know, engaged, you know, in, in times of transformation and overall is the feeling that they’re very useful. You know, as long as you can set up a context and an environment for people including you where they feel.

They are useful, you know, they will thrive. And obviously, you know, you need to, you need to have more than decent compensation, incentive systems, and all those things are useful. But I think the most impactful one is really, you know, Making sure that, you know, uh, you, you, you ask them, you know, things where they feel very, very useful, useful for others, useful for the mission and useful for themselves in terms, in terms of, uh, personal development.

When you go through a Uh, transformation. You learn, you learned a lot about your own leadership. You learned a lot about and this, you know, really feeds, you know, the self confidence and, and the, uh, the, the degree of engagement of, uh, of the team. So those are the themes. Maybe I’m not super structured here in my answer, but those are the key thing, you know, the, why the proximity and, you know, feeling useful.

Uh, there’s probably many other things. I’m sure they are super theorists. Of this, I wrote full books about it, but as a spontaneous answer, this is what I would say.

ESCP Students: Thank you for sharing this, and we’ll move forward for a question about what, uh, what are for you the biggest challenge of today, both in leadership and in the pharmaceutical industry, and how do we overcome them?

Jean-François Brochard: I’ll start with the easy one, which is the challenge, you know, in the industry and then I’ll go back to, I would say, challenges in my leadership, if you want. I, um, I think the biggest challenge, you know, working in the industry is really the challenge of, of true and sincere partnership with our, with our stakeholders.

And this is maybe more true in some markets. Uh, it’s likely to be the case in France. I’ve lived in other markets in Belgium. It’s, it’s a bit different, for example. Uh, there’s a, it’s easier to set up, you know, uh, sincere, uh, partnerships, but in Mark, in some markets, it’s more difficult. So I think there is, there’s this thing about, we have, we have an image of an industry that makes a lot of money to some extent.

You know, it’s true, but we are delivering also huge amounts of values to a patient journalists across, you know, uh, the world. So I think it’s about how can we find, you know, the means to, to establish how do, how, how can we leverage our leadership externally to actually, you know, help our stakeholders believe in, in, in, you know, co writing things.

Together for improving health in one particular country. And sometimes we’re very much considered as a, you know, supplier if you want. So the lowest the cost, the better for them. And it’s truly hard to make them, you know, understand that this is much more nuanced and systemic and holistic than they think.

And the pharma industry, you know, is also a promoter of a, of a healthy, you know, knowledge economy. Uh, you know, it’s about, you know, uh, also working with the, uh, uh, academic centers across the world and developing knowledge. And this is, this is huge as a value and they don’t necessarily recognize, you know, those things.

So it’s, it’s really about establishing this, uh, how do you do this from a leadership point of view? Once again, you start with the, why you try to, you know, uh, be sincere. And you also need to be clear about, yes, you know, we also have some economic, uh, expectations, you know, uh, investing in research is, is a huge investment and, you know, we can’t have, uh, the U S market, uh, paying for, you know, uh, the world innovations, if you want, which is kind of the case today, maybe two third of the, uh, of the economic proceeds of, uh, of a new drug is coming from the U S at least in the last 15 years.

So, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we need to have, you know, to help our stakeholders realize that Paying the lowest price, you know, is not sustainable, you know, if you want to continue to have this, uh, uh, innovations, you know, therapeutic innovations and diagnostics, innovations, they need to evolve. So this is, you know, as far as the external, the pharma industry is concerned, I think this is, this is the challenge.

And I think. One of the ways to resolve those challenges is to make sure also, and Mohamed made reference to some of the responsibilities I have in the National Pharma Association, is also trying to align our colleagues in different, many other companies. And to the same kind of, uh, approach, but, you know, being a partner to the system.

And, you know, most of them are, you know, and they, they think alike, but it’s, it’s about the lining this now. It’s not, not just one company that can, that can do it. It’s a whole industry. I can start moving and also adapting their commercial models, adapting their partnership models, if you want. Uh, so that this becomes big, it becomes possible, but, you know, as soon as long as Our R& D organizations will continue to produce amazing, you know, therapeutic innovations.

I think we will have, you know, the necessary conditions to actually, you know, make this partnership work in the future. Now, you also asked me about my personal challenges in leadership, and I started by saying that I welcome, I welcome, uh, feedback and challenge. So, you know, I hope I have a good answer to this, uh, to this one.

I think the, um, the, uh, the key challenge or the key things that I would, I would, I would like to continue to improve is really about this, uh, being a systemic leader by systemic leader. Uh, it’s not about the leader of the produce, uh, performance or leader produced engagements. It’s really about a leader that produces systemic value, value for the company you work for, value for the people you work with, value for the system, the health system you work in, and value for the, you know, political world that’s around you, you know, what I said earlier about the knowledge economy.

So this is, this, so It’s not only about being focused on your team and, you know, making sure that, you know, they thrive, uh, they are engaging, they are motivated, but it’s about also linking this with the external world and your corporation. Because you could feel that you are autonomous in an affiliate and to some degree you are, but you know, you have to integrate those dimensions, you know, the society.

Uh your affiliate if you want and you’re the corporate and I think it’s about finding ways to be effective and navigate through through all of this Sometimes it’s easy. It’s easy. It’s easy because everything is aligned you know the interest of your system is the one of your affiliate and one of your corporate and you kind of You know, it’s like in sailing when your, when your wind is coming from the side, that’s kind of easy sailing.

And sometimes, you know, corporate and the affiliate and, and, and, you know, the, the local decision makers, you know, are not aligned and, you know, you need to, you need to find ways to, uh, to establish, you know, You know the partnership also, you know, say, you know, say clearly the things that needs to be improved The things you’re willing to put on the table and the things that you do you are demanding, uh that they improve so Most of my time is actually more on this kind of situation where you have to to manage through a bit of conflicting Priorities here or there But

uh, this is You know one I would say one of the key challenges making sure that what you do, you know work systemically and not just you know in your team or you just You don’t just pride yourself because you know, you know, you you inspire with your people and uh, that’s okay Uh, so and you need to do I think you need to do uh, you need to integrate Um, i’m not sure.

I like the word balance, but it’s more integrating those things. It is making them, you know, coherent one and another so this is Uh, yeah, what I’m I think if I can get much better at this, you know, I would be very happy. It’s very clear.

ESCP Students: Thank you. So now I would like to go to another section. We’ll give you one word and want to get your reaction about leadership.

Jean-François Brochard: About leadership. I think this is really what, what, what, what, what makes, you know, Miracle possible. I think this ability to, uh, to bring larger group of people, you know, do something which is meaningful for another group of people, uh, by leading them, by giving them the vision, by providing them the tools, by providing them the environments and the context, you know, this is.

This is just great. You can achieve amazing things. We can, we can solve huge problems, you know, like health problems, like, you know, people are dealing with, you know, difficult lives and you can just by, uh, kind of, you know, uh, this ability to lead, you know, different groups of people actually make this happen.

Uh, but leadership is never. I think eventually it’s never, it’s always about one individual if you want, but, but it’s always so interdependent. So we are so connected with the others that, uh, you know, attributing, you know, the quality of leadership to one individual, I think is a mistake. And it’s really about, uh, You know, working, you know, as a network and, you know, we are very, so much interdependent.

One of the things I know you asked me one word and I’m making a long, a long, a long speech here, a long answer here. But, uh, I think there’s a traditional leadership journey, I think is less and less about. Myself and more and more about ourselves. I think this is this is a natural direction I think I see many other leaders and that are sharing the same kind of experience.

It’s less about yourself It’s more about you know, the system and we’re trying to improve for others.

ESCP Students: Yes about innovation innovation, um, I think it’s it’s it’s both a um, well innovation is both a blessing and a curse Uh, it could achieve amazing things. Uh, like look at what we’re doing in health.

Jean-François Brochard: Bringing therapeutic innovations that, you know, are fundamentally, you know, making people live longer, live in better conditions. You know, sometimes actually, you know, garish from, from some of the disease they suffer. Uh, look at, you know, the promises of, uh, gene therapy is massive. So, you know, it’s, it’s both amazingly, uh, potent, but at the same time, You know, it’s, it’s, if you don’t, uh, anticipate some of the consequences of it, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s becoming a bit of a curse and, you know, look, look at, you know, we can have a long debate about, you know, global warming.

And, uh, so, but you know, the, the, the scientific evidence is there and some of the reasons why we are in this situation and, you know, the, the, the destruction of, you know, complete natural ecosystems is because of innovation too. So I think is, you know, innovation without wisdom, I think brings chaos. And I really think that we need to think very thoroughly, especially companies like us that, you know, you know, put, uh, innovation, uh, to the forefront of our mission, making sure we understand the consequences and how can we actually continue to innovate?

Without paying such a high price on global systems and, you know, I’m thinking about, you know, global warming as one, I think the, the reduction in biodiversity is, is, is one other. And I think we have a responsibility. We can’t just say, you know, we, we, we, we try to bring innovation at any cost. So once again, you know, to maybe to, to, to make a more concise answer about the innovation, it’s really, you know, uh, you know.

Use wisdom so that it does not become a curse. But you know, you keep the blessing. So about the general management, what about general management? Yes. Um, I think we need general manager. Now I’m gonna be a bit promoting here, but you know, I think this is, you know, you, you, and whatever it is, whether you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a plant, whether it’s, you know, an affiliate, whether, whatever, whatever it is, you need the general manager.

You need, you need kind of a, I believe in incarnated leadership. So, you know, it’s about people. So I’m fine. Yes. When I’m walking into the, into, you know, the office in Paris, it’s okay. They see me as, Oh, you know, yes, he’s kind of, he’s our leader. And hopefully I’m up to that expectation. And some days I am sometimes some, some days I’m, I’m less that’s okay.

But, you know, I think it’s okay. You know, you have to kind of, uh. Uh, be at ease with the idea that people will look at you and say, you know, you know, you, you, you have a responsibility to kind of help us, you know, look at, you know, what’s right. You know, what’s what’s the right direction? What’s the right mission?

What’s the right vision? It’s okay. So you need you need this and it’s to be incarnated. It can’t be something that I don’t know. An email you send through whatever channel or, you know, on an app and suddenly, you know, you become, you know, a leader, I think it’s incarnated, you know, people need to see you, you need to be able to articulate this, you know, drinking a coffee with one person or you need to articulate this in front of a thousand people telling them the same story.

Jean-François Brochard: So general management, general management is absolutely useful to, to, to companies and it needs to be incarnated. Yes, and finally about the spread love in organizations. Spreading love into organization. I, uh, that’s a, that’s an interesting one. I, uh, so the thing that would be many meanings to the world, uh, love, but I think there’s something that has to do, you know, the, the, the Greeks had actually three names, uh, for this.

Which I think is interesting. We only have one in English, only have one in French and many languages. We only have one. I don’t know about, you know, many, I don’t know, Far East languages, but the point is that there’s different ways of, so, uh, I think here we are dealing about, I think the essence of love.

Is this ability to, uh, wish well for others without necessarily being recognized or, you know, being, you know, incentivized for it. This is what, you know, love is all about. And there’s, there’s, there’s something around, you know, it’s okay to, uh, I think if we can spread that kind. Of, uh, attitude. If you want that kind of leadership that you know, as long as we do well, even though sometimes we are not recognized, that’s okay.

You know, if companies if systems can actually spread this kind of love, this is fantastic. At the same time, Rita, I think, you know, we shouldn’t be also thinking that you can manage, uh, you know, the way you love your family, for example. Is one thing and companies can’t, or I think it would be a mistake to manage a company in the way you, I don’t know, you know, you deal with your family.

Uh, so it doesn’t mean you don’t need to be generous. You don’t need to be supportive. You don’t need to be challenging, but I think it’s different, different orders. Of love, if you want. So, uh, my answer would be, you know, spread the love that actually, you know, do, do, do good for people and don’t expect to too much, you know, say return or recognition on it.

So this, this, this is, you know, what I, what I would say about spreading love. Perfect. Thank you. Many final words of wisdom for aspiring leaders in the pharmaceutical industry.

Yeah, maybe it’s, it’s really around, um, you know, think system, think, think partnership. This is not about, you know, going on revenues only. This is really about making sure that, you know, what we do has a systemic impact and a positive one, you know, on society. Uh, so rethinking also the way we engage with, with our stakeholders in a way that, uh, you know, we, yes, we improve patients life, but we also improve systems and, you know, we are conscious about.

You know, some of the constraints that our health systems or our political system have, and we can’t be blind to this. So I think it’s, you know, if I had one advice or, you know, maybe an invitation more than an advice, it’s about, you know, really think systemically, open, open your, your, your guts, your hearts, your brains.

To, to something that is, you know, in partnership in nature, you know, find the sweet spot about, you know, not only, uh, win yourself, but, you know, make sure that the system also wins because otherwise, you know, it’s going to be unbalanced and, you know, it’s, it’s going to lead to either you having a bad reputation.

And this is what happened to the pharma industry, to be honest. And, you know, let’s, let’s make sure that, you know, we, we deal with another, Uh, era here, you know, but more, you know, trusted partner era rather than just, you know, being predators of resources in their systems.

Yes. Thank you so much, Jean Francois, again for your time and such inspiring discussion. Well, thank you, Rita, Mohamed, and Naji.

Naji Gehchan: Thank you all for listening to Spread Love and Organizations podcast. We have such an important responsibility as leaders of today to plant the seeds for the leaders of tomorrow. Thank you all for listening to SpreadLove in Organizations podcast. Drop us a review on your preferred podcast platform

Follow us on LinkedIn and connect with us on spreadloveio.com. We’re eager to hear your thoughts and feedback. Most importantly, spread love in your organizations and spread the word around you to inspire others and amplify this movement, our world so desperately needs