Naji Gehchan: Hello, leaders of the world. Welcome to “Spread Love in Organizations”, a podcast for purpose-driven healthcare leaders, striving to make life better around the world by leading their teams with genuine care, servant leadership, and love.
I am Naji, your host, joined today by I’m Naji your host and I’m thrilled to be with Jill Donahue a global thought leader in pharma. Jill has won multiple awards for her work, author of 2 soon 3 books, delivering talks at global conferences, publishing in industry journals and serving pharma teams. Jill also co-founded The Aurora Project; a global volunteer group of thought leaders trying to illuminate commercial pharma’s path to patient centricity. This is my second episode with Jill, for a special “dose of inspiration”.
Jill, it is always good to see you and such a pleasure to have you again with me on the show!
Naji Gehchan: Before going right into your new book, Dose of Inspiration, can you tell us a little bit more about your story?
Jill Donahue: Sure. Well, and I’m sorry, because you know my story, but let me, let me share with others, I guess, and, and that really goes to why I’m, I’m writing this book, I suppose. So, my story goes back to, um, a long career in the industry and, um, very, very interested in the behavioral science aspect of how we better engage people.
And I think that really the big fuel for that was, uh, you know, watching my father die as a result of prescribing her and, uh, being in pharma. Reflecting on, you know, what if, what if dad’s doctors at MSL, KM, rep, whomever, had have been better able to access and engage my dad’s doctor, uh, to know the right product at the right time for the right patient, you know, things could have been so different.
So, I left Big Pharma two years after dad died and, um. I started studying this full time and was learning stuff that I was really excited about and wanted to share. So I wrote a couple of books about it and started speaking from global stages and, and, and, and, and talking with leaders around the world.
And that’s where I met you actually a few years ago in Barcelona, right? That was, um, how we met around that. So, um, That led to teaching, teaching what I was learning and one of the big things I was learning was when we are purpose driven, we do better, you know, that mindset shift changes everything. So we created this, this journey and that brings me to the book, this latest book, but we created this journey called The Power of Purpose, where we, um, take people through an exercise to help them connect with their why, you know.
Where’s the meaning for you in work? Why do you work here in pharma? And I’d run these programs with people and, um, groups would share their stories. Right. And it was so powerful. And then that I found myself going into the kitchen after these group shares and, and, you know, often through tears, sharing with my family, Oh my gosh, you won’t believe this story.
It was so amazing. I’m so inspired by these people. And then it occurred to me, this is silly. right? Like, why would I just share it with my family? What if I could share these stories, these amazing stories of how people in pharma find their purpose and meaning in their work? What if I could share them more broadly?
And so that’s when the idea came up for Well, let’s put them in a book so and so that’s what we’re calling it a dose of inspiration a hundred purpose stories of farmer leaders. And, um, so you got more than you asked for there. You asked me what my, you know, my background and I gave you that and then more.
Sorry about that.
Naji Gehchan: No, but I love it. And this is that was my first question. Now that you heard more than 100 purpose stories. Why are you putting them in a book? But you answered this. So let me go to what are you hoping this book will bring? to those who would read it. Well, what difference Are you hoping this book will make?
Jill Donahue: Yeah. Well, our experience is when people connect with their purpose, and interestingly, you know, studies show there’s just a McKinsey report that said about 15 percent of us, 1. 5 percent of us, are connected to our purpose at work. And that’s just such a shame, because there’s also huge evidence that shows the people who are connected to their purpose, those are your best People, they’re the ones who go home happiest, the ones that have the highest results, they perform better, they’re healthier, they live longer.
There’s incredible evidence, right? So when people connect to their purpose. They do better, they go home happier, they ultimately create better patient outcomes, right? So if we can, and I know, you know, I love the groups that I work with, I love having this impact on people, but there’s so many pharma people in the world that I’m never going to touch.
So if this book You know, back to your question, what do we hope this book will do? Our hope is that it will be literally a dose of inspiration to get people to think about, Hmm, why am I here? Well, maybe I should think about connecting to my purpose too, because I know from my experience with these programs and from the incredible literature, the evidence out there, that when people do connect with their purpose in pharma, we change more lives.
Not only the lives of the people in the Indi in the organization, but the HCPs that they touch, the, you know, the stakeholders out there and ultimately the patients. So that’s my hope that it’ll inspire people to think about it.
Naji Gehchan: So as you know me pretty well, I’m definitely connected to my purpose and this is why I wake up every morning coming to pharma trying to help patients live better.
One of the first feedback when you start working on your purpose, it’s not, it’s not easy. Some people feel it’s too broad. Is it even true that if I connect to it, uh, something will happen? So how, what would you tell your audience, right? Like it’s, we’re doing kind of the similar work, inspiring others to podcast on the stories.
But I’m intrigued, someone who wants to connect to their purpose, what would be your biggest advice to them on how to do it?
Jill Donahue: Yeah, it’s so interesting, Najee, because The way I see it is we’re on this hamster wheel, right? We’re going, going, going, round and round and round. And we don’t often take the time to step off and look back to where we’ve been, right?
So that we can better see where we’re going. Another way of looking at it is taking a helicopter view of your life. You’re so busy in life. You’re in this forest and you can’t see. The forest through the trees or what is it? The trees to the forest, forest to the trees. Anyway, you can’t see where that path in front of you, but when you step out of it and allow yourself to dig in.
And the funny thing is when, whenever we talk about purpose, I know if I could see the bubble over people’s heads, I know they’re immediately thinking of family, right? And I don’t want to deny that, of course, for all of us, when you, you know, why do you live? Well, for my family, right? Yes. My kids, my mother, my, whoever it is, right?
Whatever family is to you and you can go further. So I want people, I want to say to them, you know, when you think about purpose, you can think about it in three ways. There’s one, your personal purpose. So for many of us, that’s family. Then there’s your organizational purpose that you work for. And we’re so blessed.
In pharma right in health care that any organization that we work for ultimately is doing good in the world, right? Saving improving lives. That’s a beautiful. Organizational purpose, and then there’s a third purpose, which is your role purpose. So Daniel Pink, who I just love and admire, and I’ve had the privilege of interviewing him a couple times, he describes it as the organizational purpose is your big P, capital P, right?
And he said, in pharma, you’ve got that in healthcare, you guys got that right, save and improve lives. But that little P, that’s your role purpose, how you feel connected to that organizational purpose that he says is missing. And when you can connect those. That’s when the sparks fly. So my advice to people is look beyond.
Yes, of course, your main purpose in life is to serve your family. And if you really want to live your best life, find meaning in your role as well. Connect your role purpose to your organizational purpose. And I think everyone out there can do this, no matter what your role in the world is, especially in pharma.
Like our organizational purpose is so noble. And when you connect the dots between what you do and how that ultimately impacts helping people, purpose always comes from helping people, basically. So, think about it. How does your role help people, help people, help people, help patients, potentially?
Naji Gehchan: Yeah, I, I certainly fully agree, you know, and as you’re saying in pharma, we have this noble purpose with a huge responsibility, right?
Of, of making life better for patients. And every single person working is making it happen. It’s sometimes tough, you know, when you’re, as you said, into your daily. work into the weeds of what you’re doing operationally to just think about it, but each one of us is making it closer to patients somehow, either faster or more broad, but every single person in the healthcare system is working towards this.
Jill Donahue: Yeah. Otherwise you wouldn’t have a job, right? You’re there for a reason. And it’s interesting because so many people will say, Oh yeah, but not me. They’ll have their arms crossed and say, you know, I don’t touch the patient. I was like, well, very few of us touched the patient, right? And your role is still important.
And I tell the story about, um, Johnny Johnson. Have I told you this story, the Johnny Johnson story? He’s a, um, He’s a, uh, a bus driver, like a shuttle bus driver. And I met him on the shuttle bus from our rental car at the airport to the terminal. And in the, in that moment, you know, that five minute bus ride, he managed to get all of us smiling and feeling good with his energy and his announcement over the loudspeaker about how proud he was to serve such an amazing group of people, because we were the ones who not just planned a trip, but we made it happen.
And anyway, I approached him after and said, Johnny, I just. I love your attitude, like where, where does that come from for you? And he said, well, I had a choice, you know, I had my master’s home and I came here and I drive the shuttle bus to, to make a living and I had a choice to make, was I going to be just driving a circle or, or trying to help people make a difference?
So I decided my job was to make people smile. And I said, wow, so you go home with this gorgeous smile on your face. We all have smiles. Plus I said, I bet you make more money than the other guys. And he said, yeah, I make, uh. About a hundred bucks a day, and I said, well, that’s fabulous. So what do the other guys make?
And he said, 40. And then he added, you know, one day on my birthday, I made 500. And I said, oh my gosh, amazing. And then he said something and I was like, okay, that’s the mic drop moment. That is exactly what I teach in the program. He said, he put his hand on his heart and he said, it’s got to come from here.
It’s got to be authentic. I said, ah, that’s it right there, right? You need to go inside yourself and discover what it is about helping people that makes your heart sing, right? And, and I also advise the people I teach, you know, if you really don’t care about people and patients, I’m not sure healthcare is the place you should be, because that’s really what it’s all about, helping people.
So, yeah, dig deep, go in there to peel back the layers of the onion. I also say back to, you know, what’s my advice for people? Peel back the layers and find out, you know, where does that desire to help people come from? And we’ve discovered some things through the, through our experience with helping hundreds and hundreds of pharma professionals, um, about where the origin of that might be.
And we talk about that in the book. Um, you know, for a lot of people, it, it comes from values that they were taught. You know, I find your story fascinating, right, from, from your upbringing. And if people haven’t heard that episode, they should really listen to your story, right? I don’t know if you want to give a little Thanks, Jill, for the mention.
Where do you think your value, yeah, where do, where do you think your connection to that meaning came from? Like, if you were to summarize that, where do you think?
Naji Gehchan: Yeah, certainly. As you said, and probably some of the listeners heard it before, it certainly came very early on, right? Seeing, um, being a kid who was born during the war, seeing how we can help people in need.
Uh, I certainly very early on wanted to make sure that I can help people, uh, what they are most of their need. And this is why I ended up in, you know, becoming a physician and working in humanitarian work. Uh, and as you said, you said something, uh, very true. Several times you hear people saying, yeah, we’re not touching the patient.
So I can tell you I’ve, I’ve I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to help people in ER or in, uh, during wartime and bombing zones, et cetera. I certainly touch patients. So you see the immediate impact that you can have, but being now in the pharma biotech industry, it’s just, it’s just different. I’m not touching them physically and helping them one at a time, but I’m so proud after now serving for more than 15 years in this industry.
Being able to say, I managed to launch drugs that help millions of lives that touch globally, right? So I think this is where sometimes we get into, okay, I’m not touching immediately, but actually the impact is, is massive and broader. Sometimes that’s what you can do at a hospital base or at a scene, uh, scene place.
Jill Donahue: Exactly. And the more people can get in touch with that, the better they do. And that takes effort. You know, the other thing I say to people back to that advice is it’s a choice. Being purpose driven is a choice. It doesn’t just happen. It’s something that you need to think on. And that’s another thing that we do in this program is how do you create that culture, right?
What are the things you need to start, stop, and continue to do? Number one is connect with your story. Like, why is helping people important to you? Like you, you can take it right back to that first moment as a child that you watched that Red Cross volunteer helping people. And you’re like, I want to be that person.
Right. And that drove you and still drives you. And what is it for other people? And you know, other people like, wow, I didn’t, I wasn’t born in a war zone, but you know, what is it for me? But you know, I was just talking to a person this morning and she talks about her, her mother was such a loving teacher and taught her the value of helping people.
And, uh, you know, or my grandmother invited everyone in around the dining room table. I saw the value of helping people there. Like, where does it come from for you? And then once you make that connection, then what are you going to do about it? You know, how does that change? What, how you, you know, think what you say and what you do, it changes everything.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah. And how you will take it and make sure that your team every single day. is remembering the purpose and what we are serving and who we are serving daily. You know, the other challenge I’d love to get your thoughts on is, uh, purpose, values, culture. You talked about pieces where several times you hear some, some leaders, execs think, okay, the, all this is great, but at the end of the day, I need to deliver results.
So how do you think about this and how you combine both?
Jill Donahue: Yeah, I love that question. It’s so interesting because in our industry, we are so evidence based right with the life sciences. It’s all about evidence. Well, I encourage leaders to please look at the evidence in the behavioral sciences because it is abundant and rich.
The studies consistent that when we focus on our purpose. Good things follow for everyone. It is unequivocally the best thing that’s good for health care. It’s good for the employee. It’s good for the HCPs. It’s good for the company, which is the question you asked, and it’s good for patients. So the evidence on it being, um, contributing better outcomes is, you can’t deny it.
It is strong evidence. Interestingly, in the book, because I get this question so much like, Oh, yeah, that’s all good. Nice feel good thing. But I need to deliver numbers to global. I’m like, Oh, man, if only you knew, this is the way to do it, right? This is your biggest mistake that you’re not looking at the behavioral sciences about how, how to inspire people to do their best work, how to empower people to do their best work.
You know, there’s so many studies that say purpose is far less expensive and far more impactful than any incentive. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the incentive program you’ve ever put in place, so just look at the literature and so in the book, I provide at the front of the book, a lot of that evidence, because I know.
You know, once people get it, the purpose is important, then they have to convince people that this isn’t just a feel good thing. This is actually, makes really good business sense. So I provide a lot of those references and studies to help people have that very discussion that you’re just introducing there.
But just, you know, bottom line, you’re evidence based people. Look at the evidence. It’s there. It’s abundant, rich. It will, it will change your mind on it. So we’re eager
Naji Gehchan: to, uh, to read the book, read all those stories and, and see those advices. Do you have one big learning after interviewing those 100 pharma execs?
Uh, what connects them to the purpose? Any common thread you felt in this book that you want to highlight?
Jill Donahue: Yeah, and, and this book is just a hundred of the many, many, many hundreds of, uh, pharma people around the world that I’ve, uh, worked with on, on purpose. And I do have a few key learnings and I share those in the book as well.
And I think, you know, the number one thing is, oh my gosh, Najee, people in our industry are so awesome. I just. Love working in this industry. I’m inspired every day by the people who work in our industry and how focused they are on making a difference and helping people and bringing their brilliant minds, whatever their expertise is to this big picture of healthcare to try to make it better.
And, um, and that inspires me, right? Just the, the. Quality of the people that we work with. That’s that’s one of my big takeaways. And as far as the takeaway on on where their purpose comes from, which you talked about earlier, um, there’s some different categories that I think for some people, it’s a first hand health care experience for themselves or a loved one.
But then there’s lots of people that that isn’t the case. And then they’re like, Oh, geez, I don’t have anyone who I’m like, No, that’s good. That’s okay. Right. Um, so for other people, it could be, um, we’ve seen for some people, it’s a real commitment to equity because of some equality that they had in their life and they want to help with that in healthcare.
Uh, for others, it’s, you know, these personal values and belief beliefs about helping others in healthcare and the importance of, of, um, service. And for some people, it’s like wanting to pay it forward, giving back, um, inspiration from parents and role models is another one. Um. Intellectual scientific curiosity is the beginning for some people, right?
So there’s many different triggers and everyone’s story may have a combination of those things too. It’s not necessarily just one thing. And also stories evolve over time, interestingly. Yeah, in the book I think I have, um, my six big takeaways from all the interviewing I’ve done, um, so those will be summarized too, uh, in there.
Naji Gehchan: Love it, Jill. And as you said, every everyone has a story, right? And everyone has a great story that inspire others. So I really love what you what you’ve done in the book. It’s why you talk about 100 as you know, we’ve been 100 and 20, uh, interviews also and podcasts and episodes with great leaders. And it’s certainly inspiring every, every person has an incredible story.
And I feel fortunate to be in this industry and hearing those stories every single time. I want to give you now a word and I love your reaction to it. The first one is leadership.
Jill Donahue: Love. Um, Yeah, you know, you and I both know that people are uncomfortable with that word in business, but um, whether it’s love or purpose, so perhaps I could have used the word purpose when I think of leadership, because I think it’s driven by, and purpose and love to me are connected as well, but it’s driven by that authentic caring for people, leadership, you have to care for people, and that’s what makes people follow you, with title or without, but that’s leadership.
You know, when people, um, admire you and trust you and believe you care for them, and perhaps the patients you’re serving together, that’s when you have leadership. That’s when people engage with you. That, to me, is the most important thing. For people to trust you, admire you, and believe you care for them, and the patients you’re serving together, that’s leadership.
In our industry, especially. What about story story? Um, so important. Interesting because, you know, people wear their business suit, right? We put on this suit and we present ourselves or we present the science. And we think that that’s going to engage people. It does not. And we work with so many scientists who are so driven that way, right?
And they think that the story, there’s no room for that with the business suit. And I encourage people to, to open that up. That the story is powerful beyond measure. That your story, the patient’s story, you know, I, I teach um, Scientists, MSLs and physicians, how to be more engaging presenters and I joke and say, you know, the first 30 seconds of your presentation will make or break the engagement with your audience and it better not be your disclosure slide, which, of course, they’re like, Oh, shoot.
Uh, so, you know, start with your story. Why are you here? Open up with. Before I get started, I think it’s important for me to share with you why I’m here and what my intentions are and give your four sentence version of your story. It will change the way people respond to you. Story is important. Long answer to your one word.
That’s a
Naji Gehchan: great, it’s great. The first one is a dose of inspiration.
Jill Donahue: The next word you want is a dose of inspiration. A reaction to it. My reaction, a dose of inspiration. I think that’s You know, I think of ripple effect, right? Um, if that dose of inspiration starts something, I love to think of the ripple effect that, that goes on from there.
So if I can just do that little drop, I think of it too, like, um, dose of inspiration, vitamin P, you know, we all take our vitamins every day, and I say, what’s your vitamin P for purpose every day? So maybe this dose of inspiration will be a little bit, you know, that vitamin that you take every day, you read one story to inspire you on a gray, tough day.
So, yeah, ripple effect, I guess. I’m hoping for. And do
Naji Gehchan: you know the last one I always ask, so I, I wanna ask it again. Spread love in organizations.
Jill Donahue: Oh, brilliant. Love it. As you know, you and I are on such a parallel path, Najee, and I am so, um, proud is the wrong word. It’s, I’m so impressed and grateful for the work that you’re doing, spreading love in organizations.
Um, and I, I just think it’s brilliant and so grateful that. You’re doing this work and so gratitude appreciation and, uh, yeah, keep going spread love and organizations.
Naji Gehchan: Oh, thank you so much. It means a lot and you’re definitely a big part of my journey and story as I’ve told you several times. Any final word of wisdom for healthcare leaders around the world?
Jill Donahue: I don’t know if I have wisdom. Um. I just encourage you, encourage people to, uh, don’t give up, you know, it takes effort to be focused on our purpose, but it’s well worth it. It is well worth it, but choose that every day and do what you need to do to choose that. Maybe this book, um, will be your first, uh, you know, drop in that ripple to see good things happen.
By the way, it’s free, right? We, I don’t think we’ve mentioned that. We want this book to spread, so we’ve made it a free ebook, so, um, yeah. Uh, maybe that’s my, my, uh, wisdom, as you say, but, uh, start somewhere with the, you know, keep that vitamin P going or start vitamin P, download the free ebook as a little place to start.
Naji Gehchan: I love it. Vitamin P. I will, I will add this and for sure, we will put the links to download the free book for, uh, for all our listeners, uh, and we’re eager to, uh, to see, read, hear those hundred stories. Thank you so much, Jill, for being with me again today. It’s just a great pleasure to talk
Jill Donahue: to you every single time.
And thank you. Think about the hundred people. You’ll see them soon in the book, but I have a huge thanks to them for being so vulnerable to be willing to expose their, their story, their journey to inspire others. They’re amazing folks. So big thanks to them. And thank you to you for hosting to you and Zena.
Thank you so much.
Naji Gehchan: Thank you all for listening to SpreadLove in Organizations podcast. Drop us a review on your preferred podcast platform
Follow us on LinkedIn and connect with us on spreadloveio.com. We’re eager to hear your thoughts and feedback. Most importantly, spread love in your organizations and spread the word around you to inspire others and amplify this movement, our world so desperately needs