Naji Gehchan: Hello, leaders of the world. Welcome to “Spread Love in Organizations”, a podcast for purpose-driven healthcare leaders, striving to make life better around the world by leading their teams with genuine care, servant leadership, and love.
I am Naji, your host for this special episode in partnership with ESCP Business School and its specialized Masters in Pharma and Biotech Management. I am joined today by Jessica Leygues, General Secretary of Women’s Cancer Institute. Jessica is an engineer by training from AgroParisTech, and started her career at Alcimed consulting firm where she spent eight years developing new healthcare markets (biotech/medtech) for entrepreneurs, start-ups, SMEs and large corporations as well as for the public and semi-public innovation sector, including the French Ministry of Research, research institutes, competitiveness clusters and knowledge transfer centres. Strongly committed to optimization initiatives for healthcare systems, Jessica then joined Celgene, where she was responsible for a partnership hub aimed at developing the healthcare value model. In April 2020, the midst of COVID pandemic, Jessica became the CEO of Medicen Paris Region, Europe’s leading health cluster, where she redefined the strategic positioning of the group in order to launch concrete reindustrialization initiatives to accelerate growth in the French healthcare industry and boost national sovereignty in order to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic
Jessica, It’s great to have you with me today!
Jessica Leygues: Hi, thank you very much. I’m really honored to be with you today. Thanks.
Naji Gehchan: Can you first tell us more about your personal story, from engineering to redefining healthcare at a country level, what is behind your inspiring journey?
Jessica Leygues: Hmm. Um, when I chose my, my orientation when I was younger, what I wanted to do most, of course, like a lot of people now is have a true impact on the world.
So when I chose the life sciences path with this agro biotech engineering school, I truly believed what we would focus on would be sustainability and so on. But At that time, it was still really focused on productivity and the values were not the ones I was looking for. So at the end of this higher education, uh, background, I really didn’t know what to do to be the most, uh, useful as possible.
So I started. As a consultant, uh, in the biotech, uh, sector, and it was really interesting because I had the opportunity to work with, uh, entrepreneurs, uh, with, uh, institution leaders, uh, with, uh, healthcare authorities, with, uh, um, industrial companies. So it gave me a sense of where You could have impact and where to start when you want to, to truly, um, spread values, uh, from within organizations.
And it was really inspiring to see, uh, that in France, that, that there was a lot of, uh, experimentations. And, and, and, and people organizations that want to change the system. Uh, so I had the opportunity to test what it is in the public sector, in the private sector and healthcare, obviously with a really, really, uh, um, a comprehensive, uh, sector to, uh, to, to, to, uh, to change things, uh, as a patient perspective, as, um, uh, a whole system perspective, uh, in, uh, in terms of, uh, macroeconomy.
So yeah, I never got back to anything else.
Naji Gehchan: So it’s through this incredible diverse experience, right? You talked about consulting, you’ve done biotech, you’ve done pharma, you’ve done government, nonprofit now, uh, is there like a key leadership thread that you’ve been taking with you across all those different experiences?
Jessica Leygues: Yeah, I would say there are many, uh, key learnings that I got along the way and, and maybe to start what is really important for me, uh, is. Where you can have the most impact is not necessarily when there’s 300 people in the room. And this is what I learned, uh, going from a big, uh, group to, uh, 30 people team when I was leading, uh, the medicine Paris region by your cluster.
Uh, it’s. Yeah, what stroke me is that when you have one on one discussions or really really small teams, um, a way of working and thinking this is at least for me and this is maybe a way of of uh of thinking and working this is Easier maybe sometimes to have a power to change lives and to influence people uh to have the opportunity to really Work on, uh, profound and deep, uh, change in people’s life, way of thinking and way of working.
So I would say today, uh, and today, uh, it’s even stronger for me because we are beginning from the start a whole new project. This Women’s Cancer Institute is from scratch. It doesn’t exist yet. Uh, so I’m building a whole new team now, and this is a great opportunity. Opportunity to me to have the opportunity to really work on, uh, personal life and, and, um, uh, professional life balance, for instance, and, and, and truly get to know people to get the best of them.
And, uh, and to help them, uh, get bigger and bigger, uh, in a, in a federative project that this is really something important for me. I, I, I meet a lot of people that think. Managing more and more people is a, is an achievement is an objective, but that’s not my objective anymore. I would say smaller teams are sometimes a bigger way to, to move forward to have an impact.
Naji Gehchan: So I want to, I want to go there. I want to go on two things. First, if you can tell us, uh, what, what’s your, what you’re trying to achieve in the women’s cancer Institute, as you said, you’re just starting. So I would love to, uh, for our agents to learn more about it. And from there, tell us how you’re thinking about building your team.
What are you looking for while hiring people? How do you build your team for you to be able to achieve the purpose of, of this Institute?
Jessica Leygues: I would say it’s all about values, but maybe I shouldn’t say that too loud because in France, you know, it’s all about the curriculum vitae and your background and your, and your.
Um, you know, degrees and so on, but actually when I look at CVs, I don’t, I barely look at the, the, the, uh, higher education background. I look at what people do in their personal lives, their engagement and so on. And this gave me. A sense of what they are what they truly are. Um, So again, i’m not saying it’s what everyone should do or it’s it’s enough But that’s where I start and for me, it’s really important.
And now we are starting this new team and really I they just Uh arrived a few days ago So I will tell you in a while if it’s working But this is really all about values and and shared share an objective a common objective You And another thing really important, I think, is, uh, it’s quite obvious, uh, you, you’ll tell me, but fight for what you believe in, and, and I know sometimes it can be really, really harsh because, uh, there are so many struggles, so many big challenges we are facing now, and we are all feeling guilty because sometimes we are not able to, to go to 100 percent of what we would like to put in place, uh, if we, if we, Think about environment, for instance.
Uh, we are not all able to change 100 percent of our lifestyles. Uh, but I truly think small steps are important and, uh, a step by step approach is really, really, uh, impactful. Um, and this is a small water drops that feel oceans. So this is also some, something I’m trying to work on with the teams. I, I’m looking to, to work with is really it’s you.
Um, to, to get happy with small victories and to work on concrete, small projects. Another thing I learned is that when you have, um, a strategic work plan and you know where to go and you’re really frustrated because people can’t always follow you, uh, it’s my, one of my key learnings is that you really need to stop and to help people Get on board and to listen to them and to help them, um, Getting into it and and feeling that this is a common project and again to do so you have to work on really Concrete things really small projects We all have Really high expectations and ambitions that we want to go there at once uh And and this is and i’m saying this but this is still something where i’m working on because sometimes it’s still frustrating things Don’t go fast enough never but on a human perspective, this is so Intense and so rich to stop and to talk to people and to learn from them and to include everyone’s vision into your yours into your vision and uh Bye Actually, you can’t do anything if you don’t, if you don’t do that.
Even though you succeed, if you’re by yourself, nothing works. So step, small steps, inclusive way of thinking, participating way of, of decision. I think this is, uh, what I learned, uh, along, along this short wait.
Naji Gehchan: Well, these are incredible gems you’re bringing. You know, you talked about small steps, you talked about inclusiveness in the decision making, um, and really this idea that you said, like, fight for what you believe in.
So along those lines, I’d love to know if you also go through your COVID experience, right? Like you had to manage through tough times, you have to manage on reindustrializing a country, sovereignty, et cetera. But if we go on the leadership aspect of all this, sometimes I feel like we, people can be hang on the idea they have in mind and fighting.
This is why I wanted to take what you said, like fight for what you believe in. Am I assuming correctly that you’re thinking about a general belief, a general purpose that you want to achieve, fight for it? and really get those small steps done for you to get there. And how do you think about this while managing team with setbacks?
I imagine during COVID times you had a lot of setbacks from different parties and then sometimes beliefs will go down or we’re never going to achieve it. How do you deal with this on a daily basis with a supreme, like a very moving environment that was COVID for you?
Jessica Leygues: This is a really good question. And even more accurate that I got, um, to the, um, uh, medicine management in April 2020.
So at the beginning of the COVID crisis. So had, I had never seen the team I was about to, to manage. And as you said, in a really moving and challenging environment where needs and expectations were just crazy from day one. But even though external issues and challenges and business model, uh, um, questions and positioning in the ecosystem and relationships with, uh, institutions and our members and so on, we are crazy.
I. Spent a lot of time internally with the teams because this this This organization is non profit as you said uh, it’s an it’s it’s something you you join because you want to Help and you want to be useful and and the team I joined at that time was Lost because the business model, it’s still, even though it’s not nonprofit, you have to pay people and it’s a 30 people team.
So you have to find ways of sustaining a certain amount of revenue. Uh, everything was changing so fast. We were wondering if we could hold on a nonprofit, uh, model, or if you were becoming a startup. You know, and it was really deep as a, as a questioning for, for, for the team, for the, uh, the values and the, the, um, the objects, uh, itself of the organization.
And to me, it was really important to spend. more than half of my time with the team to understand how we could build something that that would be really, uh, differentiating and impactful on the outside. And this was at the time quite, um, new because all, all people that succeeded, that, uh, preceded me, uh, didn’t Choose this way of working.
They didn’t spend much time inside. So it was a it was new and we built Values we built what we wanted to do with this organization and I think this is one What what really explains what we were able to achieve over the the next years and during uh, the covid crisis during which we had to again to understand, uh, a few thousand of of uh, You Players Expectations and so on and find the best compromises and solutions to help the whole ecosystem to grow so again What helped me is listening to these guys.
They were very different people, of course coming from different areas and Younger and and and older and so on but I learned from them and the the idea I I built on what we should achieve was theirs actually was it was really a Co a co construction And and I think this is So that’s something, um, that drives me over overall, because if I sum up the objective of the project I’m leading now, the Women’s Cancer Institute, actually, we’re talking about basic research, translational and clinical research, uh, care, But it’s all about a holistic approach, how to better understand what really matters for patients.
Um, what is their lives, their situation, their psychosocial environment, um, and how we can help them as much as we can. But, On their definition, and I know in the health care system, it’s really difficult because, of course, everyone wants to do their best and think they know what’s best for people, but it’s not always what we think.
So it’s all about including patient feedback, um, to build really personalized answers to every individual. And this is why this project is so important to me. And this is why we called it the Women’s Cancer Institute. It’s not the Breast and Gynecological Cancer Institute. It’s all about people, in this case, women.
But this is really, again, a matter of connecting to people, listening to their needs and co building what we can achieve with them. not thinking we think what we know and what we think is better than theirs.
Naji Gehchan: I, I love it. And I’ve, I’m sure you will have a tremendous impact that is needed for patients and women specifically, uh, within this Institute.
It’s, um, it’s so important. And I totally relate to what you said, like several times. We think we know what other one versus actually listening. And hearing what people want and act on it. So I love that it’s the core and heart of what you will be doing. Jessica, I want to go now and give you a word, and I would love a reaction to it.
The first one is leadership.
Jessica Leygues: It’s funny because these days I’ve been thinking about how leadership is close to Being a parent and how to think about health care as I just mentioned and I think and I heard Um a u. s. Psychologist a few days ago. I’m sure you know her It’s becky kennedy and she said for her a parent and a leader Was someone able to connect to to himself herself and connect to other and it was a definition of Sturdiness and I really connect it to this definition.
I think this is really something that that defines me as well um, because again, I think our strength is is is this Synergy this this ability to learn from others to better understand how they work what they can bring to the world to A family, an organization, a society, uh, and it’s just the same thing with patients.
So I would say leadership I could of course I could mention exemplarity and blah blah blah But what I really want to focus on today is really this this Ability to connect to others But also to connect to yourself. And this brings us back to what I mentioned before, fight for what you believe in. You really have to, um, to be aligned with what you say, how you act, what you represent.
And I think a good leader is someone who managed to do that. And it’s not easy, of course. And not everyone has the chance to find, um, the right place to do that. It may be a lifetime, uh, journey.
Naji Gehchan: Yes. And you talked about this alignment, right? Like the heart, brain, and practically the hands, right? Like that will make it, that will make it work.
The second word is innovation.
Jessica Leygues: I could spend days on this word because, uh, definition is different from one context to another. I think I will repeat myself, but for me, how, how. Translate, uh, discoveries into progress. It, it’s what we look, uh, we, we are looking for when we talk about innovation, and it’s all about, again, including the users into the whole process of innovation.
There are people with really bright minds and good ideas and the best intentions in the world that. Develop solutions without including, uh, the potential users. And we see that a lot in healthcare and specifically in digital healthcare solutions. And it has been a really strong fight for me when I was leading, uh, the medicine bio cluster.
Because, yeah, it doesn’t work. When you don’t, when you don’t work with people for these same people. So I would say it’s all about co construction and the ability again to connect and to understand what are the true unmet needs. Sounds obvious, but we see every day that even in 2024, it’s really not easy.
Naji Gehchan: I fully agree. And it’s like less construction these days than building together. But you’re here. This is why we’re here, right? This is why we have leaders like you and, and several of us trying to make it work. The third one is women’s health.
Jessica Leygues: Again, a lot, a lot of things to say. Um, Maybe I would start with a few, not figures, but at least, um, pieces of information. What we notice is that the, um, the number of, of death by cancers decreases more slowly for women than for men.
What we notice as well is that, um, in when, uh, when a cancer arrives in a couple, it happens a lot that the couple doesn’t survive. And it’s six times higher when the woman has a cancer. Of course, I’m talking about, uh, it or couples. Um, so these are a few examples of what we wanted to look further into, uh, women’s cancers.
More specifically, if I go back to women’s health more broadly, there are cultural challenges from the design of, uh, clinical trials to the way we look at symptoms of a, of a disease, um, uh, the way we look at the pathology. The how you how you use treatments everything is based mainly on men tests, uh, we know much better how a man reacts to a stroke or or any Uh a high number of uh Not funny, uh, events.
So this is a lack of chance for women because they die more because we are not able to help them as fast as we do for men. Uh, so this is again, something we have to tackle. And I don’t know that the exact figures of the world, but in France, it’s really, really high. There are cultural reasons. There are, uh, factual reasons.
I mean, even from the preclinical tests, uh, on mouse models, Uh, it’s male models we use most of the time. So we would have to change a lot of things. Um, and, and we have a lot of examples also of things that are moving quite slowly, but still they are moving. If we talk about. Endometriosis, I don’t know how to say that in English.
Um, for years and years, we thought that that women were just complaining about usual stuff. And it’s quite recent that we realized maybe it wasn’t only that. Uh, so, so this is a really a way of looking at things. And again, now this topic is on the table. I can see everyone is looking into it and I’m sure things will, will be able to evolve.
more efficiently than other topics. When you think about the fact that a few decades ago we thought babies didn’t hurt.
Naji Gehchan: It’s
Jessica Leygues: just crazy when you think about that now. Okay. But at that time it wasn’t. So we have to change the way we, we think of the way we look at it. It’s really a cultural matter. And this is why this Women’s Cancer Institute is quite a, comprehensive project because it involves as well prevention, health literacy, the way we tackle fake news.
So it’s really a broad approach, not only about how to better understand, um, uh, the cancer development and the, uh, the spatial temporal evolution of tumors, for instance. It’s not only that, it’s really much, much, much broader because we have to change the way We think and the way we act, even though we don’t realize it at all.
Naji Gehchan: Yes. And I love how you’re framing it, right? It’s really a social change that you will be acting and that we all need to act on versus just gathering data or fixing, you know, a disease. It’s, it’s beyond that. It’s really the way we look and think about things. And, and it’s interesting not to open the very hot topic of AI these days, but obviously, as you said, like, Everything is based out of data for white male.
Of a certain age, right? I’ll stop there. I don’t know if you want to. Yes.
Great. The last. No, please go ahead.
Jessica Leygues: No, no, it’s just about to mention that, um, again, AI. There are a lot of hurdles to be able to. Make the most of it and in france particularly and we were talking about social issues and cultural issues That could be another Dedicated podcast though. I won’t be long on this matter.
But again understanding what what what people uh fear about it Would be really helpful to unlock a lot of things in France at least Because when you see that people are able to share their data on any Channel, uh social media and so on but as soon as you talk about health Nothing is possible. I think we We haven’t Tackled the issue the right the right way yet
Naji Gehchan: The fourth word is spread love and organizations.
Jessica Leygues: I think we quite covered the topic actually from different parts, but it’s all about being yourself and connect to others. And I’m not sure love is the word I would use to, to talk about all of this, but actually we talked about kindness, care, deep interest, true listening, relationship, trust, respect. So what, what is it if it’s not love?
Naji Gehchan: Any final word of wisdom for healthcare leaders around the world?
Jessica Leygues: What comes to me first is the, is the Pareto distribution. Another thing I had to struggle with and to get over my frustration about was the fact that you cannot bring everyone with you. Uh, and actually it’s not a problem if you think about the 20 percent of early adopters and people that will be able to follow and to try and to experiment, uh, and then build on success stories.
That’s actually a quite good way to go. And for healthcare, I would say it’s also the way to do because there are so many difficulties in the global healthcare systems in terms of time, in terms of sense, crisis for different healthcare professionals types. And I would say work, experiment on what’s, what’s, what you truly believe in on a, on a, on a team team.
Scale on a hospital scale and then being able to show how it works and how you can spread it I think this is always a um Yeah, something to try and and go by even though it’s still frustrating on a day to day basis for me So I’m saying that to myself actually
Naji Gehchan: Several times what we reach we are applying it and trying hard to apply it for ourselves It’s it’s Well, thank you so much again, Jessica, for being with me today and this incredible chat.
Jessica Leygues: Thank you for listening to me and I hope it was useful and I’ll be happy to hear the hundreds of people you, you interviewed and, uh, and, and please continue doing what you do because this is so important.
Naji Gehchan: Well, thank you so much. It’s a, it will be beneficial for several of us listening to it. More episodes in partnership with the ESCP Business School are available on spreadloveio.com or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Naji Gehchan: Thank you all for listening to SpreadLove in Organizations podcast. Drop us a review on your preferred podcast platform
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