Naji Gehchan: Welcome to Spread Love in Organizations, the healthcare leadership podcast, where we explore leadership with purpose. I’m Naji, your host, joined today by Michael Pietrack. Michael has been recruiting in the pharmaceutical industry for nearly 20 years. He and his team has successfully placed more than a thousand pharmaceutical professionals during that time, leaving a positive impact on the industry.
Michael started his recruiting career with the Alpine Group, where he led the medical affairs search practice. In 2015, he co founded TMAC Direct, an executive search firm exclusively devoted to medical affairs. Under Michael’s leadership, the company was named one of the top U. S. executive search firms by Forbes.
In 2023, Michael joined Kay Bassman to lead the expansion of the already established and high performing pharmaceutical and biotech search practice. Aside from recruiting, Michael is also a speaker, recruiting trainer, and an accomplished author, and was recognized as one of PhRMA’s 100 most inspiring people by PhRMA Voice.
Michael is also a fellow podcast host on the PhRMAverse podcast, where he engages in insightful conversations with industry leaders. Michael, it is so good to have you with me today. Thank you so much. Thanks for the nice introduction. First, I would love to hear more about your personal story. What brought you to be a recognized talent recruiter and specifically the pharma and biotech industry?
Michael Pietrack: Well, it was really an accident. I started off as a baseball coach. I was a baseball player in college. Didn’t really know what I wanted to do with my life, so I got into coaching, and I had a knack for recruiting, and at that point, you’re recruiting players and talking to their parents, trying to get them to come to your school and be on your team, and then at the end of that run, because it was not a lot of money to be made in that world, I hooked up with a pharmaceutical industry recruiting agency called the Alpine Group, as you mentioned, and they put me in a place called Medical Affairs, And, uh, I just tried to make the best of it using all the skills I had learned as a recruiting coordinator in the baseball world.
So that’s how it happened. It was an accident. I wasn’t seeking it. And then you never left. Never left. Never left. And now I can’t. And now I can’t even imagine
Naji Gehchan: doing anything else. So what is, what is for you, what’s attractive in the medical industry? And I know we’ve talked like the first time we chatted about the impact that you can have obviously on, on people’s lives and as a recruiter, you place those leaders who will have that impact.
So I’m, I’m intrigued. Why can’t you see yourself anywhere else now?
Michael Pietrack: Well, when I first started, you know, it was really, I like talking to people that were intelligent. I felt like that was, um, that was just something that, that really meant a lot to me on a daily basis. But now it’s really about patience.
You know, now that I’m getting older, now that I’ve, you know, have lost a parent, now that I’ve seen my friends go through different kinds of therapies and diseases and things. I realized that we’re all going to end up being patients at some point in time. And so I really just like being involved in this industry.
And as a person that can’t really go and affect a patient’s life, you know, but putting the best possible person in the best position to help is sort of how I help patients. So I get a lot of gratification around that.
Naji Gehchan: And as you said, we’re all here for that purpose. So certainly by, by doing what you’re doing, you’re helping the industry reach our purpose even faster and better.
Uh, hiring is probably one of the hardest thing and it’s the core of what you’ve done. I love the similarities you said with being a coach, uh, in the baseball field. Um, can you share with us, like, what are the top three recommendations for a hiring manager to think of? Regardless of the role, but more as
Michael Pietrack: Oh, good question. I think about this a lot. I think the very first thing that a hiring manager needs to know is really know what they want. Sometimes I feel like a hiring manager is shopping and they’re just kind of browsing. They don’t really know exactly what they want. So have a clear picture of what you want, what good looks like and be able to act on that.
The second thing is not to hire clones of yourself. Okay. I think one of the biggest mistakes rookie, um, I’d say leaders make is they try to find another one of them instead of trying to find a person that fits strategically within the team, maybe complements somebody else as far as being different. And then I would say, you know, trust your gut.
A lot of hiring is just gut instinct. And what I tell hiring managers is if it’s not an immediate yes. It’s a no. So in to move people in and out, like sometimes a hiring manager will want to put somebody on hold or on the back burner. But look, those people aren’t gonna get hired. Just let him go, give him dignity and let him move on.
So those would be the big three things. Know what you want to do. Uh, you know, don’t hire clones of yourself. And if it’s not a if it’s not a yes, it’s a no.
Naji Gehchan: I love those advice. So now if I look at it from a talent being hired, how do you, um, what’s your relationship with, uh, people being hired? Any different advice?
Or is it kind of the mirror of what you just said?
Michael Pietrack: No, it is different. I can tell you as a recruiter, a lot of people that are in my seat only do what we call marketing. So they’re only trying to get the jobs. And then they. outsource with a team of their own to go and get the candidate. But, uh, what I do is I do all of it.
Like, I love the candidate journey and, and being a, a character in that chapter of their life. I just love that. So for me, I would say the big three for candidates is to. No, where you’re trying to take your career to use a baseball quote, I’m probably gonna misquote it. But Yogi Berra said, Look, if you don’t know where you’re going, any road will take you there.
And so the same thing, you know, you want to make sure that the move that you make is on strategy and you have a clear picture of the strategy. Otherwise, everything’s gonna sound kind of good. The next thing I would do is, is to let the person, I guess, tell the person that the people that they’re going to work with is almost the most important thing.
So the job has to check the people box. So really diving in, getting to know the individual that you’re going to either report to and also the strategy of the overall leadership team is paramount. And then three, don’t be scared to take risks. All the leaders that I interview on the Pharmaverse podcast, they always say they took some big risk that catapulted their career.
So I would say those are the, those are the big three things. Know where you’re going, make sure that people box is checked, and also don’t be scared to make risks, take
Naji Gehchan: risks. So you just mentioned your podcast and these are great advice for, for our listeners on both sides. Tell us a little bit more about your podcast.
Michael Pietrack: Well, again, another accident. Um, well, I, I was thinking about starting a podcast, but you know, in my world, there’s a lot of podcasts like in medical affairs. A lot of my competitors do a really nice job with their podcasts and just like a pharmaceutical company doesn’t want to be late to the market. I didn’t want to either.
But I, as I was moving to Kay Bassman into a larger leadership role, I started interviewing established leaders that I had in my network that I really respect. And I started picking their brains about leadership. Well, one of the guys I was interviewing. Said, oh man, I wish that was recorded. And then the light bulb went off for me and, uh, and I, so I started a leadership podcast, it’s called the Pharma Averse Podcast.
And the reason I call it the pharma averse is I wanna pull leaders from all different areas of the universe of pharma to get sort of the best practices about leadership from a, a, a lot of different people. Sort of a composite sketch of best leadership advice. And so that’s how the pharma averse was, was, um.
Was originated and it’s really Interesting to be on this side of a podcast now,
Naji Gehchan: well, and you have, uh, so you’ve had several interviews now, um, approximately 20, I think, uh, and great, uh, leaders and you, you talked about different topics within, uh, pharma, healthcare, biotech, is there like a one big learning from all those different interviews or one big threat that you would take?
Michael Pietrack: I would say that, you know, your podcast, the focusing on love, um, is really something that I see woven through, I would say 80 percent of the people that I interview is genuinely caring, like not, not fake caring. But genuine caring and people can know, know the difference when a leader genuinely cares about their people, they’re going to be a very strong leader.
So all the people that I’ve been interviewing that has been the most consistent thing mentioned is caring or in your your case love.
Naji Gehchan: I love that. It reassures me. You know, mine is biased. Obviously, I interview healthcare leaders who believe in this. It’s good to hear that within our industry, it’s 80%. As you said, people you interviewed.
Um, I’m going to move now to a section where I’ll give you a word. I’d love your first reaction to it.
Michael Pietrack: Okay, I’m ready.
Naji Gehchan: So the first one is leadership.
Michael Pietrack: The first word that comes to my mind is leading from the front. Is that a word? Yeah, that’s fine. Tell us more. Well, so, uh, another thing that I see not only in my own experience, but also through interviewing other leaders is, Leadership is not from the back, cracking the whip, getting the, you know, the, uh, the sled dogs to go in a certain way.
That’s not really what leadership is. It’s really like someone leading from the front, being like the expedition lead saying, we’re going to go up that mountain. I’m going to show you the way, and I’m going to lead from the front. And then as you’re leading from the front, you kind of. Slowly move the way back, making sure everybody in your expedition is is doing okay.
No one’s falling behind. Um, and so that’s why I say leading from the front. What about legacy legacy? The first thing? Well, I wrote a book called Legacy, so that’s the first thing that came to my mind is the book. But really, legacy is more about the qualities that you exude that people then begin to emulate.
And that’s what this legacy book is about, is about more about the legacy. You leave your Children, and it’s more about the actions that you do. So the actions that you take. And that’s true in leadership. It’s true in parenting. You know, it’s, it’s like you don’t want to be the parent that’s smoking a cigarette saying, don’t smoke.
You know, um, you want to lead, you want to lead and, and, and show them what good looks like. And then that’s the legacy that you leave, uh, the, the generation behind you or, or your team. The third one is personal brands. Personal brand. I would say personal branding is, is very similar to legacy. It’s about what you represent.
It’s the, um, it’s like if you think of, um, any brand, you’re going to have an immediate reaction to that brand. And the same thing with when you hear someone’s name, what that, what they feel, what they think, what they remember, all of that is what your personal brand is about. Now, some of that you can influence You know, through branding, you know, through social media or whatever.
Uh, but most of that is again, how you act, what you do, what you stand for, what you do in times of crisis, what you do when you’re, when you have to make a big decision, all those, uh, create your personal brand.
Naji Gehchan: So, and these two legacy and personal brands, obviously you wrote a book on legacy and I know you also wrote articles about personal branding.
I want to expand a little bit more on, on this topic. I’ve, you know, we talk a lot about it. Do we need to care about our personal brand? And like my first reaction to people is whether you like it or not, you would have a brand, right? There’s no, you can’t like decide not to have a personal brand. It exists.
It’s a matter of. How you shape it, do you want to touch it, et cetera. So as you worked on it, is there anything, how, how do you push people to think about their personal brand as a leader and is there any advice on how to do it in a certain way for you to achieve what you want to achieve in life, I would say.
Michael Pietrack: Yeah. So let me take the first part first. Should you have one? And like you mentioned, you’re going to have one whether you want to or not. Um, but it has to be strategic. A lot of the people that I talk to about personal branding, they really don’t want to put themselves out there. They really don’t want to like, they don’t, they’re not big fans of social media or whatever the case may be.
There’s something that they don’t want to be involved in and they think they have to. Make it all about them. But like even you with this podcast. I mean for you. It’s about sharing love within organizations It’s not about you. It’s about love same thing with my podcast. It’s not it’s not the Michael P track show Let me go on a rant every other week.
It’s let me showcase a leader and let’s learn from them And so all of that is establishing our personal brands So, uh, actually we have a podcast coming up about personal branding with someone. I think that’s really doing a great job of it. And all he does is highlight how good. Employees are every post he puts out.
There is. Let me tell you how good my colleague is. Well, so, so if someone is not really like into personal branding, even if you’re showcasing other people, your personal, your branding yourself as someone who’s selfless, someone who puts other people first, you know, someone that’s a great leader and someone that you I’d want to work for.
And so all that creates a personal brand. So how do you do it? Well, the first thing that you have to do is you have to think about what is your medium? Like, are you going to be a podcast host? Are you going to be very active on LinkedIn? Is Twitter your thing? Or is there some other forum that you want to?
That has an audience that you want to brand to like, for instance, you know, any other brand may have a commercial and they may choose to do that at the Super Bowl because that’s when the biggest audience is there. Well, maybe your biggest audience is linked in. I know mine is. So for me, I do a lot of my personal branding on linked in.
So once you establish where your forum is, then it’s all about frequency and content. And a lot of people that I talked to about this are like, Oh, I don’t want to have to come up with content and, and, uh, everything is content, whether it’s, you’re having a review lunch with Jennifer, or you’re having a team meeting in Boston and you guys go see some, uh, iconic element in that city, whatever the case may be, those, that content, everything is content when you put it out there on LinkedIn or whatever the form is, you have to be consistent with it.
So I’ll stop there because that’s a lot of information, but that’s what I would say is, is how to do
Naji Gehchan: it, but this is great information. And as you said, consistency about the content, I think is a, is a great piece of advice, uh, along with all the other pieces that you brought. Thank you. The fourth one is spread love and organizations.
Yeah.
Michael Pietrack: Well, I got to tell you, the first thing that I thought about was. First Corinthians 13 four, uh, which is in the Bible says, I have it pulled up here. Love is patient. Love is kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag. It does not get puffed up. And it goes on. And then in verse eight, it says love never fails.
So when I heard this podcast about spreading love and organizations, the first thing I went to is love is. And when I think about my own personal leadership style, I fail. Often, but this is what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to be patient. I’m trying to be kind. I’m trying not to brag about my own accomplishments, but highlight other people.
I’m trying not to get puffed up when when agitated or when my ego is bruised. Um, I don’t, you know, in the list goes on. And I know that if I do that, A drug may fail, a business initiative may fail, but love is not going to fail. And so for me, when you say love, I think of, I think of that scripture. Yeah.
Naji Gehchan: Well, thank you, Michael, uh, for sharing also vulnerably, uh, a part of, uh, you as a leader. So I really appreciate that. Any final word of wisdom for healthcare leaders? I
Michael Pietrack: would say what I’ve learned and speaking more about love is the best leaders. It’s not about them. When I’m on the phone with someone and they’re talking about their career, there really are two types of people.
There’s the people that are really worried about the people around them. Helping them develop his leaders. And then there’s people that are all about their own career and their own career progression. And sometimes when they’re talking to a recruiter, they are more eye focused. And that’s that’s understandable.
But I would say the best leaders are not hung up on titles. They’re not hung up on anything other than the scope of the work and the people they’re gonna do work with. And so if I could impart one bit of advice, not only to candidates, but also to leaders, is think about the work. Not the title of the job, not what it pays, not what the equity is.
Yeah, those things are important, but they should be secondary to how, how vital the work is. How much, uh, intrinsic value will you derive from doing the work? Who will you be doing the work with? Is this a team that you want to go and try to win the Superbowl with, even if you’re the backup running back?
So that would be my advice.
Naji Gehchan: These are incredible advice. Uh, for everyone listening, I truly thank you so much, Michael, for being with me. It’s been a great conversation. I’ll make sure also we, um, for my listeners, you will have, uh, your podcast also featured to listen to some of the incredible, uh, leaders that you interviewed.
Uh, and we can all expand and learn as, uh, as leaders, podcasters on the different podcasts that we have. So thanks again for being with me today. It’s been a pleasure. My pleasure too. And we have to have you on the podcast. We will. We will. Thanks for listening to the show. For more episodes, make sure to subscribe on spreadloveio.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Let’s inspire change together and make a positive impact in healthcare, one story at a time.
Naji Gehchan: Thank you all for listening to SpreadLove in Organizations podcast. Drop us a review on your preferred podcast platform
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