Naji Gehchan: Welcome to SpreadLove in Organizations, the healthcare leadership podcast where we explore leadership with purpose.
I am Naji your host, joined today by John Bamforth for the launch of his book: Race to Innovation. John grew up in Wigan, England and studied at the University of Bath and Aston University, earning a phd in neuropharmacology. He joined Eli Lilly in 1989, building global brands and leading diverse teams after moving to the U.S. in 2001. Most recently he completed 6 years with Eshelman Innovation at UNC-Chapel Hill, helping turn breakthrough ideas into real-world patient solutions. I had the pleasure to know John for years now and he was my very first guest on the show 4 years ago!
John P Bamforth: Great to be back. Naji.
Naji Gehchan: Uh, well, I certainly recommend folks to listen to your story on our first episode, John. Uh, but why don’t you share with us again, through the lens of the past four years and a little bit of the craziness, uh, in the, in the word and how the word changed since the last episode we recorded during the pandemic.
Actually, uh, can you tell us a little bit more like a brief story about who you are and where you are today?
John P Bamforth: Yeah, sure. Um, well, Naji, you know me well, um. I, uh, had 30 years, as you say, at Lilly and then moved to the, moved back to academia, which was quite, quite a journey in itself. Um, and moved back to early stage science, right?
So we were in the institute and I literally just finished the six year stint there. You know, we were developing early stage therapeutics. Um, so very different to my role at Lilly and, and also digital health companies. So. That was a great experience. Uh, um, a great experience for six years working back within, you know, we were, we were embedded in the number one school of pharmacy in the country.
Um, and, you know, it was, it, you know, it was really, um, so about the time that we last talked, I mean, it was, it was around that point in time that, uh, everything happened with George Floyd, um, and, uh, and his murder. That caused Roy, who’s the co-author of the book, Roy as well, and I, to pause a little bit, um, there was a lot of, as we all remember, there was a lot of back and forth at that time around, uh, race and, and everything associated with race and, and a lot of reflection.
And Roy and my reflection was, you know, this is a community, the African American community that, that, uh, we know. Um, to a degree. I mean, I’m, at the end of the day, I’m still a Brit right at heart. Uh, and so I, I was still in my learning journey about the African American experience here in the us but you know, that we knew enough that, you know, the African American community has a really rich history in innovation entrepreneurship that in some cases not many people know.
And so, um, we, we decided to, to dig in, uh, to, to do a little bit more research. And, uh, out of that came the book, right? And, uh. The books got dives deep into the African American community, but we believe this is a story that applies to many un underrepresented communities. In the US We always say, including white, rural America.
Um, this is not about the color of your skin. This is about marginalized communities. And I think, and you and I have this global experience, I think this has application outside the US as well.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah, it certainly does. And you know, I loved how you frame it between your incredible journey career that you had, your roots as you also shared last time, and you said you’re bit by heart.
Um, and also what has happened, uh, through the last, through the last year is it’s kind of culminated, it seems in this book. Right. So tell us more about trace to innovation.
John P Bamforth: Yeah. So, um, you know, we di I think, as I say, we took. Um, the research was really to understand the history of innovation within the Afri African American community, um, which is a long and storied history, pulling out individual stories, you know, uh, uh, Madam CJ Walker is a great example because it has a, a connection for, for us in Indianapolis as well.
’cause she, that’s where she ended up with her business. You know, the first African American female millionaire. In the US and then we interviewed a whole host of current day innovators and, and entrepreneurs and told their story in the book and, and we came out with five domains that we think are important, encouraging communities like the African-American community.
’cause our high level premise, this is not a de and i book. This is a business book. Okay. The premise of the book is. If we encourage these types of communities and support these types of communities to innovate and become entrepreneurs, there is a benefit to all of us. This is not a zero sum game, so the majority doesn’t lose.
If we encourage these communities to innovate, we all win, and I think that’s probably the most important message from the book. And there’s a lot of debate right now in the US and frankly outside the US as well, is that. There’s a lot of discussion about immigration. There’s a lot of discussion about, um, different communities and, and some of the, some of the concepts are, you know, people, these people are coming to take our jobs.
Our bias is completely different in the book. Our belief is completely different. We believe both from a community perspective and economically, that if we encourage innovation, entrepreneurship in these communities, it benefits all of us.
Naji Gehchan: So, John, let’s start, uh, and I want to go there, uh, because it’s, it’s a key out output that you have, um, about all thriving together. So I wanna go there, but before that, can you define how you’re thinking about innovation in the book? Like, it’s a word obviously, that everyone uses, like think of, et cetera, but how, how do you define innovation?
John P Bamforth: Yeah, it’s a great question. You know, my, my friend innovation is, uh, probably a little simple. Um, you know, for me, and it, it goes probably back to, to our days at Lilly, you know, innovation to me are, are novel solutions to, you know, uh, really challenging problems. Um, that’s one of the benefits, um, of, um, the joys of diverse thinking, particularly on teams, right?
I mean, you and I had the pleasure of working together at Lilly on some very diverse teams. Um, global teams, you know, the, our work together on, on Seattle back in the day, you know, we had people from all over the world on that team, right? We had people from Japan, we had people from Portugal, we had people from, when I say those countries, you’re thinking of the people I know.
Exactly. Because we all knew. We all knew who I’m talking about. It’s all about people. It’s all about people. But those teams, um, we didn’t pull those teams together. Because we wanted, you know, different countries and different, you know, colored skin. We pulled together those teams for the talent, right? We, we pulled in the most talented people we could find from around the world to enable our success.
And when we got that team together, and, and you and I know that team still talks today, we’re, I think the, we’re talking about like 2003, 2004. That team still talks today, like almost daily, right? Almost daily. I’m texting those same people like usually every week in some way, shape or form. And the reason that team is so tight is the quality of innovation and, and business acumen that that team brought to the table.
’cause everybody had a different view, right? Every had a different lens on the problems we were dealing with. Everybody had different, uh, ideas of how we could solve those problems. That was respected within the team, right? We’d argue sometimes and, and have all those arguments, but nonetheless, the, and, and it delivered amazing outcomes, right?
And I think that’s the richness that we’re trying to pull out with the book is, look, we’ve got, you know, one of the first principles we talk about in the book is, um, uh, recognized potential. So, so believe there is potential in every individual that comes in front of you, no matter what their background is.
Assume potential is the way we describe it, assume potential. And there are some great examples in the book of, of, of individuals that we’ve talked about in that frame. But if you go in there with that mentality of no matter what background that person comes from, African-American, whatever, Lebanese, um, assume potential, assume that they’re gonna bring value to the table.
It’s just gonna, it may represent itself in a bit of a different way, right.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah, certainly. And I can of course attest to all those stories with Cialis and, but you know, John, like, as you were talking about it, which is very true, and we kept being a tight community either growing within the company or now, like that’s very spread.
You know, as I joined was my first job in the, you know, in corporate it, it, it felt so natural. As I grew in roles and leadership, I realized that it’s not actually, you have to be intentional about it and have those core beliefs in humanity, basically. And so, so you’ve done it, like you’ve done it through a leading career.
You’ve done it also, uh, through leading innovation in academic ways. Like is there, is there a formula? Like can you get people believe in that and do it? Because we discussed several times the scarcity of this, so I’m, I’m, I’m sure within your book it’s kind of a recipe for those aspiring to do that, but in a word where potentially we’re seeing more, you know, like people fearing one another rather than embracing our differences to thrive together.
Like what is your message of hope and how to do that?
John P Bamforth: I, I actually don’t think it’s very hard to do. I just think it’s not done very often. Um, and, you know, uh, we’ve probably talked about it before, we may even talked about it in the last podcast, but, you know, I’m a great believer in, uh, what Daniel Pink describes in this book drive because I think it’s the essence of building this, the sort of culture that we’re talking about.
And, you know, he talks really about three things. He talks about, you know, humans, humans like to learn, they like to feel like they’re growing, right? And so asking people in a team, you know, what is the, what is the big audacious goal for themselves as individuals? What, what is the, what are they trying to achieve in life?
You know, it’s surprising how few times people are asked that question, right? What do you, what do you wanna do with your life? Right? So that knowledge piece is important. Um, the other thing he talks about is autonomy. So the feeling that you’re in control of what you’re doing within your job and that you, people trust you to go do the right thing.
Again, it’s, that’s an infrequent thing. You know, people, everybody talks about micromanagers and our whole nine yards, right? So many times people don’t trust their employees to, to do the right thing. So autonomy’s really important. And then this, the last piece that Daniel talks about in the book is, is that purpose piece, right?
That vision of something. You know, when we were doing Cialis, you know, we had, we won’t go into the details, but you know, we had a audacious goal that we all bought into and nobody believed outside the team that it could be done, but we did. We believed it could be done and we achieved it and surprised everybody that that knew us, that we would that, but we believed that we could do it as a team, we’re like, okay, they don’t think we can do it.
We do. We’re gonna go do it. Right? And sure enough, we built, you know, the number one brand in the category. That’s what we wanted to do. No, we believe we could do it, but we did. And that, you know, that that purpose piece bonded us together and we had a ton of fun with it as we were doing it right.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah.
Yeah. And, and you know, like I, I, obviously we talked about this and I, I thought a lot about it. O of course the purpose is so important, but I would go back also to what you started with. It had like, purpose, you know, as I thought about it, and basically when we discussed me studying this podcast four years ago, and the name of Spread Love, right?
In organizations you have the purpose, the vision, the, the values. They need to be here and need to be aligned. And, and then what you just said about trust, like for me that was the piece I think that you led and that a lot of us now leaders aspire to lead teams that way. Where you build this genuine care of a community here together to achieve this bigger purpose and, and you’re mixing it with diversity.
Obviously, as you said, that was one of your core beliefs since the beginning. Um, that, that made a difference, right? Like this genuine care for one another. And it’s funny, like this is why we stay connected, right? Like we generally believe that we can achieve something big, but we generally believe that we can do it together.
Yeah. And there’s a place for all of us and you know, like we care for one another and this is why we keep on calling one another. Actually,
John P Bamforth: no, I, it’s funny ’cause uh, you know, I’ve got a copy of the book. Um. So, you know, this came out with a dialogue with Roy and I, right? So, hey, this is really interesting.
We should do some research here. Maybe we should write a book. Oh, that’s a good idea. Maybe we should write, have you ever written a book? No, I’ve never written a book. I do that. I have no idea. I have no idea how we write a book. But let’s, why don’t we go try, right, let, so again, I’m going back to this vision police, like how are we gonna do it?
I don’t know. But we, we will work it out, right? We’ll work it out. There’s a, there, there are three. The reason I hold up the book, there are, um, there are three contributing authors in here. There’s a, you can see it, but there are three, three faces in the book here, three contributors. And it was really interesting how those three individuals came in, came, became part of the project.
Um, Maya, uh, Maya Fitzgerald, um, is a pharm d student at the school. She, she, uh, connected with me on LinkedIn. Before she even came to the school and she said, I’ve read about the institute. It seems really cool. I’ve done some work in biotech already. Are there any, are there any roles that I can do within the institute?
And, uh, she’s Maya’s a bundle of energy. In fact, she’s, she’s already had two internships at Accompany You, and I know quite well you leading company, but Maya, Maya did a lot of the early research, a lot of the kind of bench research on the book. As soon as she arrived at the school and got super excited about the whole thing, dove in and has been part of the project all the way through.
Um, Ashley Thomas, um, uh, we hired from the School of Medicine. Um, she was an individual that, um, in the, when we first hired her, I think all the jobs she’d had to this point, she’d just been kind of just do the job. If we don’t need to know who you are, just do the job. And when she came to the institute, we slowly but surely pulled out.
We, you know, we asked in one of the early conversations, I said to her, ’cause she told me a few things about her, but she was still a little reticent to share too much. And Ashley’s African American, um, her stories in the book as well as being a contributor, but she had a interest in, um, gardening. She had turned around the lives of her grandparents by getting them onto health.
They were both dying from chronic illnesses and she’d given up college to go support them and help. She thought she was gonna help them through a passage to a, a premature death. But when she got there, she realized what was going on. They were eating highly processed food, poor food. They were in a, essentially in a, in a food desert.
She completely changed their diet. Oh, wow. And got them onto a healthy path and then went back to college. Wow. And so that, that drove a real interest in this, this frame of healthy eating, gardening, et cetera. Lo and behold, she tells me in one of the first dialogues, well, actually I have an online, I have an online presence.
Um, I’m, I’m the mocha gardener and I’m just about to publish a book on gardening. I’m like, what? What? Um, and so, you know, we tell her story in the book, but we, we pulled her onto the team, right? She comes from the community. She had a passion for what we were talking about. And so she came onto the team.
And then finally, Ruben Blackwell, who’s, uh, an amazing leader from, uh, from the African American community here in North Carolina runs a, um, a whole system in Rocky Mount. Rocky Mount in North Carolina was a tobacco. Town. Um, and then when, when tobacco, uh, the tobacco industry became less profitable, what Ruben always says is All the white folks left and left us all we had.
Right. And so it’s a, a very, um, uh, a very black town in North Carolina. Ruben runs, um, a federally qualified health center and some entrepreneurial, uh, activities in, in Rocky Mountain. And Reuben has a long history. Uh, we going all the way back to Martin Luther King. So having somebody like Reuben who has the history, uh, of, you know, the struggle Yeah.
Of the African American community, having him advises on the book has been super valuable. His story’s in the book too. Um, so, so, you know that, that team, long-winded answer, but that team has come to, came together with this, again, going back to what we talked about with this vision of what we were trying to do with the book, which is change the frame of how people think.
About people with different backgrounds. Right?
Naji Gehchan: Yeah. And, and I wanna go back to that. ’cause one of, uh, as you said, one of the key takeaways, uh, you’re, you’re really framing in the book is those difference can help us make a difference, not just in how we all live together, but in how we all thrive together.
So can you tell us, can you tell us a little bit more about, about how you view this?
John P Bamforth: Yeah. Uh, again. One is this openness to, uh, believing that everybody who walks into the room brings value, right? Brings value to the dialogue. But it’s also this frame of, um, you know, a lot of these communities and I, and I, I, we like to talk about rural white America.
As an, as an unrepresented community, because it, first of all, ’cause it is, you know, we did, we’ve done a lot of work with the institute up in Western North Carolina, up in Asheville, um, because we were doing some innovation work, uh, in the opioid space and, you know, the, the epicenter of the opioid crisis in North Carolina is up in Appalachia, up in, up in Asheville.
And they had the, the best insights into that problem. We built a, we built a very successful digital health company to solve some of the problems associated with opioid overdose that was built from the insights of that community. Right? So it’s just a great example of saying, look, the, these communities bring insights to problems that others don’t.
The majority probably haven’t had the experience, like nobody in route, nobody. People in Raleigh have experienced the opioid crisis than Western North Carolina. So surprise, surprise, because they’re dealing with that problem every day. They have the best insights to solve the problem, right? So go. All you are doing is you wander in there, is you’re pulling out those insights, those, those solutions that they already kinda know, right?
And you’re helping them bring it forward. So that frame, frame of thriving is, you know, let’s listen to people. Right. Let, let’s assume good. Uh, let’s assume potential, and let’s assume that by working together we can solve some of the most intractable problems that we have in our society. Um, it’s just a different frame on how to go about engaging with people.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah. That’s a beautiful charge, I think for all of us, uh, to just. Assume those things, assume good, assume potential, and working together to solve big, complex problems. Uh, but I have to ask you, jb, why and how you wrote this book.
John P Bamforth: Um, the why, uh, first of all, there’s a, there’s a, there’s certainly an African American lens on this.
You know, the, the, I’ve spent 24 years here in the US now still learning about. The African American experience here in the US which is, is, is has some interesting history. In fact, we’re off to, um, we’re off to Tulsa next week to, to Greenwood to launch, launch the book. And, you know, to launch, it’s a privilege to launch the book down there.
’cause Greenwood has a rich history, right? It was Black Wall Street. We use, we, we use that example in the book to say, look at the speed of growth. Entrepreneurship that happened in Greenwood as it grew, unfortunately, to the point where people didn’t like the speed of growth, right? There were, that’s why it was burnt to the ground, because of the speed, um, and the, the scale of success that, that was happening in Greenwood.
But, um, highlighting for me the, the, the African American experience. Just as an example, right? Just an example of what’s possible and, you know, tell some of the untold stories around what, you know, the contribution that the African American communities made. ’cause it, you know, I, I’m, I’m blessed to have a lot of friends in that community and certainly at this point in time, it’s probably easier for me to tell that story and it is for that, um, ’cause a strange English guy can go talk about these things where sometimes they may not be able to talk about it.
Right. But then to say, okay, that’s just an example, but let’s now open the aperture to say, how about if you apply, apply this idea of the potential of these communities to the US as a whole, to all of these communities that we’ve talked about. And then even the globe, right? There’s too much, you know, we all, we’re all looking at these conflicts going on around the world, you know, in your home country, in, you know, in the Middle East, in Ukraine.
You name it. Right? Um, you’ve gotta find a way of being counterbalance to that, right? To say, you know, you can look at your enemy and assume they are your enemy. Or you can look at somebody and say, again, assume potential, assume that you could maybe have a different relationship with that individual, right?
And, and I, I think we want. The book to be a, you know, a counterbalance to a lot of the negativity that surround that surrounds us right now.
Naji Gehchan: And we, we certainly need that. We certainly need that, and I’m looking forward to reading it. Uh, John, you, I, I, it’s hard to like segue into this next section, but I’ll do it.
Um, you know, this one where I’ll give you a word and you’re gonna give me a reaction. Uh, two words are the same. So we will, you know, we’ll see if it changed within four years. The first one is leadership.
John P Bamforth: Um. Again, the, the, the word that springs to mind is opportunity.
Naji Gehchan: What about, you talked about innovation. I have to bring this, uh, trendy word these days. Ai,
John P Bamforth: um, you know, again, it’s scary ’cause it’s the same words coming to mind. Opportunity, um, you know, um. Risk benefit is the other phrase that springs to mind. I mean, the, the upside is almost endless, but you’ve already seen it be used in, in less than positive ways.
So endless opportunity, but plenty of risk.
Naji Gehchan: Yeah. Yeah. And I love how like, you’re, you’re framing it. I’ve been thinking about, um, about this, right? Like as a. A tool. And unfortunately like, you know, you have so many tools that can be used for good or for bad and destruction. So it goes back to people, right?
And the culture you build, you build. So what about humanity?
John P Bamforth: Um, good question. Beauty is the, is the word that springs to mind. Um, you know, we see a lot of things in the press these days, but my lived experience of humanity is very different. If I think about the, you know, I think about this week alone, you know, I came back from the UK after being over there for a month and I spent the week meeting people right.
For a variety of different reasons. Um. I think every one of those experiences has been a, a really positive one. So in my mind, you know, I think there’s so much negativity when you, you pick up these things these days and look at social media and everything else. The reality is different. Humanity is very, the, the reality of dealing, talking to people every day is a completely different experience to the one you believe to be the truth when you, when you’re looking at the phone.
Right?
Naji Gehchan: Yes. Yeah. The last one, you know, is spread love in organizations.
John P Bamforth: Yeah. Well, you and I know, um, from our, uh, shared experience and we talked about one of our favorite teams earlier. Um, you know, I, I think about the, you know, I’m thinking about one particular friend right now, um, who, who’s, uh, stepson, um, in the last six weeks, um, had a.
An accident in a, around a, a lake in Indiana and passed and died, um, way too young. And uh, obviously the family’s really struggling with that right now. And, and I think the only thing, um, you can do in that situation is support. And I think, you know, for me, that’s a work, you know, this is somebody who used to work for me, right?
Uh, back in the day, back at Lilly. Um, but, uh, you know, for me, the relationship I have with that individual is, has always been very deep. And, you know, you, this is the time where you’ve gotta step up for somebody, um, because they, that’s the family that’s in real need right now. And, and I, I think being there for people in those times is super important, right?
Naji Gehchan: Yeah. Yeah. And you’ve always demonstrated that, you know, and this is part of. Love and being here for one another when it’s needed, and it goes beyond the job. And I can attest to that, John, you know, like how you’ve, you’ve been here with me and you know, I’m, I’m here with you. And it’s certainly something we, um, we all aspire to be as leaders, uh, being here for one another.
Any final word of wisdom, uh, John for leaders around the world?
John P Bamforth: Yeah, so I’d say, you know, um. I would hope people get a chance to read the book. Um, and, and the reason why is I hope people, um, take a moment to think about the world and think about different communities in the world in a bit of a different way.
Now, there is way too much tension, uh, wrapped up in the us, wrapped up in other parts of the world. There’s, there’s a lot of real value. By being open to people that aren’t, that don’t look like you, um, you know, working in global organizations, you get that all the time. Um, and, uh, you know, you, we were, I think, blessed to have those global experiences to, to know somebody from, from the Lebanon, to know somebody from Italy, to know somebody from Japan, and, you know, to come live in the us You know, you and I are both immigrants.
To live in the US for a period of time and know, come to know the United States as a, you know, the beauty of the United States, which we see a lot of negativity around that going on right now. You know, that’s the United States or the, the, the US experience has been a great one for me and I’m blessed to have had that.
Um, but we, we’ve gotta be open to every community and not just leap to negativity.
Naji Gehchan: Well, thank you, uh, so much, John, for being again with me on uh, on this show and being with me today. Uh, we will certainly have your book on this podcast, on the web, uh, on the website, uh, for many listeners to, uh, to read it.
It’s been great to reconnect here on the show and, uh, thanks again.
John P Bamforth: Pleasure.
Naji Gehchan: Thanks for listening to the show! For more episodes, make sure to subscribe to Spreadloveio.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Let’s inspire change together and make a positive impact in healthcare, one story at a time.
Follow us on LinkedIn and connect with us on spreadloveio.com. We’re eager to hear your thoughts and feedback. Most importantly, spread love in your organizations and spread the word around you to inspire others and amplify this movement, our world so desperately needs